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England (and Wales) gloom, doom and recriminations thread
- Thread starter wpdavid
- Start date
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
Dunno what to say tbh.
Shri
Mr. Glass
i am not allowed in here
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
GTFO then.i am not allowed in here
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
I think we have probably been saying it for some time now.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
At least in the old days we had 2.5 years to get our **** together after an away walloping.
Could be a very bad couple of years ahead.
I would probably recall Burns, otherwise drop of everyone other than Root in the batting line up down to 7, save Stokes if he can get right. Give the most promising bats a clear run, even if it costs us in the short term. It’s basically what we did with Stuart Broad, and I suppose to a lesser extent James Anderson, circa 08.
****ed if I know who those bats are though, just sounds like a nice idea in theory.
Could be a very bad couple of years ahead.
I would probably recall Burns, otherwise drop of everyone other than Root in the batting line up down to 7, save Stokes if he can get right. Give the most promising bats a clear run, even if it costs us in the short term. It’s basically what we did with Stuart Broad, and I suppose to a lesser extent James Anderson, circa 08.
****ed if I know who those bats are though, just sounds like a nice idea in theory.
Spark
Global Moderator
There's a lot of talk about structural problems with English cricket going around but very little about the huge elephant in the room which to me is the biggest structural problem of all, but the one that pays the salaries, directly or indirectly, of most of the people paid to talk about cricket professionally...
(I'm talking about Sky for the uninitiated)
(I'm talking about Sky for the uninitiated)
ImpatientLime
International Regular
i guess you're touching on sport behind a paywall negatively impacting participation numbers.
Niall
International Coach
Bleak.
Burns is crap, but England desperately need him to make it , zero openers worth anything and need someone who can take the captaincy off Root.
Stokes I don't see wanting it and after that , its bleakness.
I'd love an overseas coach as well, clearly favoritism has been an issue in the dressing room for a while and that is toxic, someone in with no ties to anyone.
cnerd123
likes this
If the issues with English cricket are structural, then what exactly is wrong with the structure?
So far I've heard the following
> Emphasis on white-ball cricket in peak summer months, so County cricket is played in more extreme ends of the season with bowler friendly conditions
> Dukes ball and County pitches
> Too many counties
> Poor identification and grooming of batting prospects (selection policies, Lions tours)
> The Hundred
> Cricket behind a pay wall (leading to lower participation numbers)
> Not enough Kolpaks/quality overseas players in counties to raise the standard
> Poor coaching quality at junior levels
So far I've heard the following
> Emphasis on white-ball cricket in peak summer months, so County cricket is played in more extreme ends of the season with bowler friendly conditions
> Dukes ball and County pitches
> Too many counties
> Poor identification and grooming of batting prospects (selection policies, Lions tours)
> The Hundred
> Cricket behind a pay wall (leading to lower participation numbers)
> Not enough Kolpaks/quality overseas players in counties to raise the standard
> Poor coaching quality at junior levels
Spark
Global Moderator
correct
Spark
Global Moderator
+ too much emphasis on picking from the same narrow sources, i.e. rich private schools (zak crawley a textbook example of this)
Flem274*
123/5
I thought dropping Sibley was a misstep at the time. Sibley wasn't good, though he did have runs against SA and NZ, but he was showing glimpses and sold his wicket dearly.
I also think we're seeing why he was ahead of these other guys. Hameed is quite poor. Dropping Burns was also an error imo. Nothing has really changed.
I rate Pope, but he is a young man. I think England should pick and stick at #3 like NZ with KW. It will be an ugly 2-3 years but you're going to get that regardless.
I think one of Bairstow and Malan can be retained at #6 as an opportunist. Foakes at #7 when available. I've defended Buttler for a while but terribad glovework is a huge no no. The door stays open though.
Root has far too much on his shoulders right now. I'd almost give Broad the captaincy to ease the load.
I also think we're seeing why he was ahead of these other guys. Hameed is quite poor. Dropping Burns was also an error imo. Nothing has really changed.
I rate Pope, but he is a young man. I think England should pick and stick at #3 like NZ with KW. It will be an ugly 2-3 years but you're going to get that regardless.
I think one of Bairstow and Malan can be retained at #6 as an opportunist. Foakes at #7 when available. I've defended Buttler for a while but terribad glovework is a huge no no. The door stays open though.
Root has far too much on his shoulders right now. I'd almost give Broad the captaincy to ease the load.
ImpatientLime
International Regular
this didn't go down well with sam billings (who also happens to be privately educated)
ImpatientLime
International Regular
would 100% give matt parkinson a go as well. you can't bemoan the state of spin bowling conditions in england then ignore the young leggie who has 102 @ 23 in first class cricket. in my 34 years on this earth i am pretty sure an english leggie has never averaged sub 30 after a decent crack of games.
foakes needs a solid 12-18 month stint too. i think he looks super vulnerable versus short quick stuff but he ain't gonna do any worse than bairstow or buttler plus he has huge upside in terms of glovework.
next summer i'd be looking at this for the core...
burns (he is legit the best opener in england and that is depressing)
opener
malan (but could easily see him going on a run of low scores now and getting binned)
root
stokes
batsman
foakes
robinson
archer
parkinson
anderson
with wood, stone and leach warming the bench. i think stone can be an absolute jet but is made of paper mache.
i would 100% do away with woakes. he is a horrible distraction in terms of the fact england cannot seperate his effectiveness at home with his utter rankness away from home. averaging 50+ outside of england is criminal.
foakes needs a solid 12-18 month stint too. i think he looks super vulnerable versus short quick stuff but he ain't gonna do any worse than bairstow or buttler plus he has huge upside in terms of glovework.
next summer i'd be looking at this for the core...
burns (he is legit the best opener in england and that is depressing)
opener
malan (but could easily see him going on a run of low scores now and getting binned)
root
stokes
batsman
foakes
robinson
archer
parkinson
anderson
with wood, stone and leach warming the bench. i think stone can be an absolute jet but is made of paper mache.
i would 100% do away with woakes. he is a horrible distraction in terms of the fact england cannot seperate his effectiveness at home with his utter rankness away from home. averaging 50+ outside of england is criminal.
Chubb
International Regular
It would be fun to see how England go if they drop everyone with a private education. I reckon it’s worth trying.
Liam Livingstone and Dan Lawrence would be in at least.
Salamuddin
International Debutant
Think England have to back Pope. I think he has the goods to be a very good batsman in the long term - young batsmen take time to develop and he is the most promising of England’s young batsmen.
a middle order of root pope stokes and foakes ain’t too bad. The issue is the top 3. Hameed is the one that disappoints the most - really thought he would be a bona fide great after seeing his hundred in India in 2016.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That's not his bloody fault though, it's the selectors, if they can't see the evidence of their own eyes why should we ditch a guy that massively performs in 50% of our matches.
Archer is fast becoming mythical. Oh and Parkinson I guess we'll see. Got the Windies next though, Woakes and Broad hae decent records there. I dunno I just don't see the bowling as the reason we've been drubbed, the batting, and let's not forget the fielding, which has let the Aussies off time and time again when our bowlers put them under some pressure, and it's not just this series we've been doing this.
On the subject of Poshos, and as the true working-class hero around here, I'm just not sure we have any options. Cricket is not played in state schools, so most of our cricketers are Forn or public Schoolboys, been like this for decades. Hard to see it changing TBBH.