Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?

[sunilz]

If IND wins the series in SA , then Kohli will be remembered as the greatest Asian Test captain . I criticise him all the time but you can't argue with the result.

People can say this SA team is weak but they still whitewashed both PAK and SL 3-0.

 

[honestbharani]

Just to clarify, you dont think India's batting lineup has a unique problem of crumbling in high pressure situations/games under Kohli? Yes or no?

No. And if you watched cricket, you would know too.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

As far as Indian cricketing heroes go, Kohli fans are least loyal and least blind followers (unlike Tendulkar and Dhoni fans)

Virat has been a great test match captain and continues to be one. The idiots who argue otherwise are exactly that.

Very constructive posts! I am convinced

 

[sunilz]

Just to clarify, you dont think India's batting lineup has a unique problem of crumbling in high pressure situations/games under Kohli? Yes or no?

Basically we are another SA of 90s or you can say chokers.

 

[Xix2565]

Just to clarify, you dont think India's batting lineup has a unique problem of crumbling in high pressure situations/games under Kohli? Yes or no?

We have crumbled under many captains for this to be something unique to Kohli alone though. If there was more to this than trying to use Ashwin to beat up Kohli's rep (and/or make snide remarks about Ashwin's personality) then I might have some time for it.

 

[ankitj]

Burn this thread

 

[subshakerz]

If IND wins the series in SA , then Kohli will be remembered as the greatest Asian Test captain . I criticise him all the time but you can't argue with the result.

People can say this SA team is weak but they still whitewashed both PAK and SL 3-0.

This SA team has been beaten by both Sri Lanka and England at home in the past few years. It is the poorest SA team since readmission. I expect India to comfortably win.

 

[sunilz]

This SA team has been beaten by both Sri Lanka and England at home in the past few years. It is the poorest SA team since readmission. I expect India to comfortably win.

Regarding poorest part I agree. But didn't SL lose 3-0 last year to this side ?

 

[sunilz]

ENG haven't lost a Test series to SA in SA since 2001 , so not sure it is right to compare ENG with IND.

 

[ataraxia]

Burn this thread

I (a) completely agree and (b) like how this is post 666 given hell's relationship with fire.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

Mate you just claimed there's nothing special about being the most successful Indian test captain in like ever. How do I dare to even discuss the captainship then?

Never said that!

Here's a simple thing:
Australia is not the same without Smith, England's batting is half as good without Root. But India does well regardless of Kohli(or even other big names). Like I said earlier, Kohli has improved leaps and bound as a captain, but whatever errors he makes never get highlighted coz of how great the side is(with excellent bench strength).

Saying things like Kohli has built a "culture of fast bowling" and what not doesn't really add up. IPL has helped unearth talented players(for e.g. Bumrah) and allowed a lot of our younger guys to get used to playing in high pressure games.

Umesh, Bumrah, Shami, etc. were quality pace bowlers even before they made it to the Indian team. Same with the current crop of upcoming pace bowlers (Shivam Mavi, Nagarkoti, etc.), Kohli has got nothing to do with the development of these guys.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

Massive lol at Kohli fanboys. Now they are giving the credit of Bumrah to Kohli. As if Mumbai Indians and Rohit had nothing to do with it .

Remove Bumrah from India's pace attack and we will again struggle in overseas conditions despite Shami, Umesh and Ishant.
Kohli ran away from Captaincy in 2 deciding moments in BG Trophy in 2017 and 2021. It was Rahane who captained India to victory in those 2 series.

To me Rahane is like Mark Taylor and Kohli is like Ponting in Test captaincy. I would back our team to perform even better under Rahane's captaincy.

Captain should get the credit if bowlers perform well. But Captain shouldn't take the blame in batting collapse ?

Nailed it.

 

[srbhkshk]

Umesh, Bumrah, Shami, etc. were quality pace bowlers even before they made it to the Indian team. Same with the current crop of upcoming pace bowlers (Shivam Mavi, Nagarkoti, etc.), Kohli has got nothing to do with the development of these guys.

This is flat out wrong, all of Ishant, Shami and yadav were terrible before Kohli's time and no one knew about Bumrah and Siraj.

 

[srbhkshk]

The only pacer Kohli has failed to develop is Bhuvi which is a massive Black mark against him but pretending that this set of bowlers were doing well before him is lolworthy.

 

[sunilz]

This is flat out wrong, all of Ishant, Shami and yadav were terrible before Kohli's time and no one knew about Bumrah and Siraj.

They are terrible even now. Ask them to play 1 series in overseas conditions without Bumrah. You will see the difference.

 

[srbhkshk]

They are terrible even now. Ask them to play 1 series in overseas conditions without Bumrah. You will see the difference.

Sure.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

This is flat out wrong, all of Ishant, Shami and yadav were terrible before Kohli's time and no one knew about Bumrah and Siraj.

Bumrah was literally found by the Mumbai Indians. And Shami and Umesh were really bright prospects who had started off well and Kohli the captain wasn't around at the time.

 

[centurymaker]

Forgetfulness is an enduring feature of Captain Kohli fans.

Yes that was a full collapse but it was India's first match on tour of England. They barely had any time to prepare for it or acclimatise, while new zealand played a two match series vs England. Then India lost toss on greentop, so batted first. Then because of rain and time eaten up, despite india restricting NZ to a small lead, India had NO possible way of pushing for victory in the 3rd innings! Only thing india could achieve was a draw.

The key difference is how much better India was in the tests against England right from the start because the team had camped in England and were fully acclimatised. Similar to how Nz were far more acclimatised for the match against India.

So it has nothing to do with the captain, besides losing toss on greentop haha

 

[subshakerz]

Kohli should get credit for pushing the 5-man attack and frankly a more aggressive approach to bowling in general by Indian standards. Especially compared to his predecessor Dhoni.

 

[srbhkshk]

Bumrah was literally found by the Mumbai Indians. And Shami and Umesh were really bright prospects who started off well. Again, Kohli the captain wasn't around at the time.

Mate maybe you should actually check their averages before and after Kohli. Statsguru isn't always great but it will do an okay job here.

And of course everyone knows Bumrah was found out by MI, MI didn't try him out in the SA series though and you could go all revisionist and pretend anyone would have taken that decision but the fact of the matter is that it was very controversial at that point of time.