*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[nzfan]

Kane is out and Conway touch and go...

Young comes in for Kane, it's a straight swap. If Conway isn't ready by then, Darry Mitchell plays in his place.

If Darryl Mitchell plays then Patel plays as well.

If Conway is available, then

1. Latham
2. Conway
3. Young
4. Taylor
5. Nicholls
6. Mitchell
7. Blundell+
8. Jamieson
9. Wagner
10. Patel
11. Boult

If Conway isn't available, then

1. Latham
2. Young
3. Mitchell
4. Taylor
5. Nicholls
6. Ravindra
7. Blundell+
8. Jamieson
9. Wagner
10. Patel
11. Boult

I think Southee will get a break for at least one test match if not two. There's plenty of cricket coming up and they'll not risk playing him after the amount of cricket he's played. Boult, Kyle and Wagner are fresh.

 

[Immenso]

I agree Southee will get rested.

Saves/delays the selectors from the awkward position of dropping (or rotating, or consigning to being overseas specialist) the guy who got 14 wickets in the last match.

Until the South African series?

(But Southee will probably want at least one test? Might get resentful at doing the hard work overseas but missing the easier home series against the low ranked team)

 

[Flem274*]

Give the bowlers a proper run in home conditions, and neuter Bangladesh's chances of a mischievous draw or even a disaster NZ collapse on a green one.

Assuming the worst injury wise.

Latham (c)
Ravindra
Young
Taylor
Nicholls
Mitchell
Blundell (wk)
Jamieson
Southee
Wagner
Ajaz

Pull the trigger on the team for the MCG now, which will include Ravindra opening and Ajaz unless we're facing the Australians (who we are not feeding a spinner to in Australia at all costs).

I suspect the side will be some janky crap though like

Latham
Young
Mitchell
Taylor
Nicholls
Blundell
Ravindra
Jamieson
Southee
Wagner/Ajaz
Boult

Gotta remember Stead, Kane and the selectors rank players differently (wrong haha) compared to us.

 

[Immenso]

Pull the trigger on the team for the MCG now,

What do you mean " team for the MCG "?

 

[thundaboult]

this is my express pace kink talking but if southee AND boult (both have played a lot recently, especially southee) get rested....can we pleeeeeeease find a place for lockie alongside jamo and wags

these tests do have points on the line so not exactly wasting lockie here....he's better than the 5 t20is per year

 

[Flem274*]

What do you mean " team for the MCG "?

Wtc final

Also agree with getting lockie involved. Before perth he was almost always fit. 2 injuries isnt a huge concern yet. Happens.

 

[thundaboult]

its about time nz have a variation in speed when it comes to our seamers, the big 4 all bowl at the same-ish pace

 

[SteveNZ]

They've got a real quandary, because you're either dropping Patel or Boult, unless Southee/Jamieson are being rested. No way Jamieson can bat any higher than 8.

I'm 100% of the belief Patel needs to play - we finally get a spinner who can bowl teams out overseas and/or in the right conditions, and we need to keep playing him unless it's an absolute green minefield. So a seamer needs to go, and for me it needs to be Boult. Southee is one of the best seamers in the world, Jamieson needs to play, and Wagner they got horribly wrong not playing in India. Massively harsh on Boult as he's been consistent in the last 12 months. Maybe they opt for a rotation system to keep guys fresh I dunno.

But the worst thing they could do is leave Patel out and play Ravindra. When you finally get a world class or could be world class spinner, you don't then leave him carrying drinks and playing the odd Plunket Shield game interspersed with Super Smash/Ford Trophy matches. We saw how rusty he was in the 1st Test and how meaningful match practice contributed to his success.

 

[SteveNZ]

Ferguson hasn't played a four-day game since COVID hit, incidentally. 18+ months without an FC game, madness to think he's playing a Test with that in mind, and the fact you have four fit front-line seamers.

 

[vandem]

its about time nz have a variation in speed when it comes to our seamers, the big 4 all bowl at the same-ish pace

Ferguson / Sears as 4th seamer after Wags retires. To get full benefit we need the batting all-rounder(s) to do some stock work (de Grandhomme / Mitchell / Smith or Ravindra), then use Ferguson / Sears as shock bowlers, short spells.

 

[straw man]

I'm 100% of the belief Patel needs to play - we finally get a spinner who can bowl teams out overseas and/or in the right conditions, and we need to keep playing him unless it's an absolute green minefield. So a seamer needs to go, and for me it needs to be Boult. Southee is one of the best seamers in the world, Jamieson needs to play, and Wagner they got horribly wrong not playing in India. Massively harsh on Boult as he's been consistent in the last 12 months. Maybe they opt for a rotation system to keep guys fresh I dunno.

But the worst thing they could do is leave Patel out and play Ravindra. When you finally get a world class or could be world class spinner, you don't then leave him carrying drinks and playing the odd Plunket Shield game interspersed with Super Smash/Ford Trophy matches. We saw how rusty he was in the 1st Test and how meaningful match practice contributed to his success.

I feel like this conversation happens every time we finish a tour of Asia. There's a new resolve to play a spinner at home so that they benefit from increasing game-time and improve their skills. "We need to develop our spinners and that means developing home pitches that turn and selecting them at home". Then the home season rolls around and the awful reality of selecting a spinner in place of a quick (Southee/Wagner/Boult/CDG/Jamieson) who will actually help us win the match dawns. So:

• sometimes we give in and don't pick a spinner after all, especially early season;
• sometimes we pick one who can bat a bit i.e. Santner. Williamson occasionally gives him 3 overs and he doesn't do much more;
• occasionally we go all the way and pick a spinner i.e. Ajaz. But unfortunately, most home pitches are genuinely awful for spin bowling. So he either gets the same treatment of an occasional 3 overs from Williamson, or if it's really a road (Basin Reserve Dec 2018) he bowls all day with no reward. Then the next match we don't bother with a spinner again. Which is why Ajaz now has 43 test wickets from 11 matches, but 0 wickets at home from 3 matches.

I too would like this to change but I am sceptical that the cycle won't just repeat. Ajaz is a spinner more able to be a weapon in the right conditions than any NZ spinner I can remember - certainly far more of a 4th-innings threat than Vettori was. Would love him to get those conditions at home sometimes but it's pretty unlikely tbh.

 

[hendrix]

Having Ravindra will make it pretty hard to justify picking Ajaz in NZ conditions.

 

[straw man]

Having Ravindra will make it pretty hard to justify picking Ajaz in NZ conditions.

correct

 

[hendrix]

With that said i don't mind playing ajaz ahead of boult as standard.

 

[Prince EWS]

Having Ravindra will make it pretty hard to justify picking Ajaz in NZ conditions.

Would be cool if Ravindra and Mitchell both ended up justifying their spots on batting alone, so the best four bowlers could be picked condition-dependant without worrying too much about not having a spinner at all or not having a fourth seamer.

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah it's a nice idea to give Ajaz the best opportunities possible but in all likelihood his selection in tests in NZ will just continue to not make sense. Unless we get a pretty unusual pitch I don't have him in my XI. The 10-for is an extraordinary achievement but doesn't suddenly make him a miracle worker.

 

[Immenso]

As a bonus. Would love MItchell as a permanent addition to the catching cordon along with Latham.

 

[vandem]

Would be cool if Ravindra and Mitchell both ended up justifying their spots on batting alone, so the best four bowlers could be picked condition-dependant without worrying too much about not having a spinner at all or not having a fourth seamer.

What was the last time NZ had a genuine top 6 batter that was a useful 2nd spinner? Pollard in late 60s / early 70s? Williamson pre-elbow problems? Santner might have been an option if he had more time to work on his FC batting.

Lots of top 6 who were useful 4th seamers, Coney, Martin Crowe (pre injury), Astle, Styris, Oram, Anderson etc.

 

[Prince EWS]

What was the last time NZ had a genuine top 6 batter that was a useful 2nd spinner? Pollard in late 60s / early 70s? Williamson pre-elbow problems? Santner might have been an option if he had more time to work on his FC batting.

Lots of top 6 who were useful 4th seamers, Coney, Martin Crowe (pre injury), Astle, Styris, Oram, Anderson etc.

Yeah I think Kane counts.

Aaron Redmond I guess?

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

I was just thinking it's been a while since we've had one of those Astle/McMillan part-timers bowling as "partnership breakers".