Would Viv have averaged 50 if he had to face WI attack also ?

[h_hurricane]

Wouldn't his first class record bear that though?

It would in most cases, but in Viv's case I just have a gut feeling it wouldn't necessarily be the case. Yes, his FC was merely decent against them, but there are enough instances of him performing better when the situation warranted. Also mentioned by Bagapath earlier, the 1990 County championship match when he went one up on Marshall is one such example.

 

[Slifer]

Wouldn't his first class record bear that though?

No because Carl Hooper had a better first class record than Viv.

 

[Gob]

Sangakkara also has a mediocre record in fc cricket I think

 

[srbhkshk]

Sad that we never saw Viv playing against 200 kph banana swing aliens, would have averaged 150 against them.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Some players raise their game higher when they face stronger opposition. It is not always a case of "Hey, he averaged 'only' 50 without having to face the strongest attack of all time, so would have done worse had he played them". Viv was certainly one of them who played better when the stakes were more. Extrapolations like this might work for some players, for instance Sehwag or Hayden in England or Ponting in India. They just had glaring weakness against one style of bowling due to which it is easier to extrapolate that their record would have taken a huge hit had they played more of the same type. Did Viv ever really had a similar glaring weakness in his game? Was he owned by any of the great pacemen of his time, like Lillee, Hadlee or Imran ? I don't think so. They had their moments against him, but he had his also. He was arguably the best player of quick bowling of his era and unarguably one of the best of all time. I am pretty confident that he would have done really well against WI bowlers, hence the answer is a resounding yes to this poll.

Viv averaged less than 50 in matches involved any of Hadlee / Lillee / Imran.

If a single ATG can prevent him from averaging 50, imagine the torture he is going to experience against a 4 ATG attack.

 

[Slifer]

Viv averaged less than 50 in matches involved any of Hadlee / Lillee / Imran.

If a single ATG can prevent him from averaging 50, imagine the torture he is going to experience against a 4 ATG attack.

Sachin averaged less than 40 in matches involving any of McGrath, Donald, Wasim, Waqar.

Gavaskar averaged less than 50 in matches involving Lillee, Hadlee and any two of Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Garner (ie a WI good/great attack). Your point??

 

[smash84]

Viv averaged less than 50 in matches involved any of Hadlee / Lillee / Imran.

If a single ATG can prevent him from averaging 50, imagine the torture he is going to experience against a 4 ATG attack.

Not sure what kind of wickets many of those matches were played on. I am sure Viv would have been near the top of the run scorers in those series, if not the top, in many of those. So I am unsure how meaningful that stat is.

As I pointed earlier, the thing with Viv was that he was not intimidated by pace, which meant he could play a lot more freely compared to other batsmen, he wasn't scared of being injured so one really big element of the quartet loses its bite. Adding to the incident that bagapath mentions from county cricket. He could definitely take the attack to the bowler, unlike any other batsman.

Imran speaking on Viv

“Of all the players in my time, Viv Richards stood out as the greatest. He was a complete genius. Viv was the only batsman who would attack me. No other batsman could attack me when I was at my peak,” the 58-year-old said. “He had amazing reflexes, greater than anyone else. He could destroy any attack, any fast bowler.

It was a gifted ability. He could move into position, so quickly... Just incredible.”

Of course, facing 4 ATGs one after the other would be a tough challenge but one would back Viv more than any other player in history to be able to take them to the sword.

 

[Chrish]

No..

I don’t think any batsman from last 50 years would have averaged 50 against WI quartet under old rules (< 90 overs a day allowed and unlimited bouncers per over). It’s unfair to focus only on Viv as it applies to every other batsman.

If I were to guess, top tier batsman would average in low 40s if they are consistently facing that kind of attack.

 

[Slifer]

Interested to see how you same lot answer this question:

Would Shane Warne had averaged 25 had he faced his own attack??

Following up on the Viv thread, I got the idea for this thread. Question is selfish explanatory....

www.cricketweb.net

 

[thierry henry]

Obviously he would have challenged them all to a fight behind the grandstand after play. Terrified by this display of machismo and aura, they would have gone to pieces and Viv would’ve averaged 100 against them, except reduced to 50.24 because of all of the times he got out either on purpose or due to not caring, which was the style at the time.

 

[honestbharani]

Obviously he would have challenged them all to a fight behind the grandstand after play. Terrified by this display of machismo and aura, they would have gone to pieces and Viv would’ve averaged 100 against them, except reduced to 50.24 because of all of the times he got out either on purpose or due to not caring, which was the style at the time.

He was tall enough to do all that, tbh.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

He was tall enough to do all that, tbh.

I dont know, but if i were in the place of Viv, wouldn't dare to challenge Garner for any kind of fight.

 

[Migara]

No..

I don’t think any batsman from last 50 years would have averaged 50 against WI quartet under old rules (< 90 overs a day allowed and unlimited bouncers per over). It’s unfair to focus only on Viv as it applies to every other batsman.

If I were to guess, top tier batsman would average in low 40s if they are consistently facing that kind of attack.

Helmet makes a lot of difference, and that means batsmen can pull the ball in front of their faces, which Viv did without a helmet. In addition heavy bats, ramps etc, would give more scoring opportunities.

 

[Migara]

I dont know, but if i were in the place of Viv, wouldn't dare to challenge Garner for any kind of fight.

Well the strongest was Lloyd. Garner being big doesn't mean he'd be the strongest. 5'7" Sanath jayasuriya was easily the strogest cricketer in Asia during his playing times till Afridi arrived.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Well the strongest was Lloyd. Garner being big doesn't mean he'd be the strongest. 5'7" Sanath jayasuriya was easily the strogest cricketer in Asia during his playing times till Afridi arrived.

That might be true, but the difference between Viv and Garner is almost one foot.. Viv won't survive a fight against Garner.
Similarly Inzy can pulverize Jayasuriya if the fight is happening in a closed room.

 

[Migara]

That might be true, but the difference between Viv and Garner is almost one foot.. Viv won't survive a fight against Garner.
Similarly Inzy can pulverize Jayasuriya if the fight is happening in a closed room.

Viv was 5' 10", and Garner was 6' 8" there may be a point. Inzi and Jayasuriya are a bad example. Inzi may be big and strong, but Jaya is basically out of charts with grip strength, a real freak of a strong man.