Would Viv have averaged 50 if he had to face WI attack also ?

[subshakerz]

If Viv could average over 40 against that attack it would be good enough.

 

[a massive zebra]

Viv Richards scored 3,330 runs @ 39.64 in West Indies domestic first class cricket for Leeward Islands and Combined Leeward and Windward Islands. If he can't even average 40 against West Indies first class bowlers, I'm not sure how he is going to maintain an average in excess of 50 against the pick of the bunch in their best era ever.

 

[srbhkshk]

Viv Richards scored 3,330 runs @ 39.64 in West Indies domestic first class cricket for Leeward Islands and Combined Leeward and Windward Islands. If he can't even average 40 against West Indies first class bowlers, I'm not sure how he is going to maintain an average in excess of 50 against the pick of the bunch in their best era ever.

I am 100% sure that if you reversed the question and asked people how much Marshall would average against a batting side of Viv and his clones, the people answering 50 to the current question would answer 20 to that one.

 

[a massive zebra]

Interestingly, Viv Richards played an extensive amount of first class cricket for a large number of domestic teams across multiple countries and didn't actually average over 50 for any domestic team:

Leeward Islands	1972-1991	28	41	4	1669	167	45.10	-	-	-	4	9	3	-	-	-	-	-
Combined Leeward and Windward Islands	1972-1981	26	49	2	1661	168*	35.34	-	-	-	5	9	4	-	-	-	-	-
West Indies Board President's XI	1973-1973	1	2	0	23	18	11.50	-	-	-	0	0	0	-	-	-	-	-
Somerset	1974-1986	191	313	18	14698	322	49.82	-	-	-	47	57	25	-	-	-	-	-
West Indies/West Indians	1974-1991	206	298	28	14407	291	53.35	11126+	4.30*	75.1*	47	71	16	1249+	100+	10.09*	-	-
International XI	1975-1975	1	2	0	23	20	11.50	-	-	-	0	0	0	-	-	-	-	-
Queensland	1976-1977	5	8	0	349	143	43.62	-	-	-	1	2	0	-	-	-	-	-
Glamorgan	1990-1993	49	83	11	3382	224*	46.97	-	-	-	10	14	5	-	-	-	-	-

 

[Migara]

He would. Absolutely murderous against pace.

May be not against a side with an ATG spinner. but any other combination, he would have been the boss.

 

[Coronis]

Interestingly, Viv Richards played an extensive amount of first class cricket for a large number of domestic teams across multiple countries and didn't actually average over 50 for any domestic team:

Leeward Islands	1972-1991	28	41	4	1669	167	45.10	-	-	-	4	9	3	-	-	-	-	-
Combined Leeward and Windward Islands	1972-1981	26	49	2	1661	168*	35.34	-	-	-	5	9	4	-	-	-	-	-
West Indies Board President's XI	1973-1973	1	2	0	23	18	11.50	-	-	-	0	0	0	-	-	-	-	-
Somerset	1974-1986	191	313	18	14698	322	49.82	-	-	-	47	57	25	-	-	-	-	-
West Indies/West Indians	1974-1991	206	298	28	14407	291	53.35	11126+	4.30*	75.1*	47	71	16	1249+	100+	10.09*	-	-
International XI	1975-1975	1	2	0	23	20	11.50	-	-	-	0	0	0	-	-	-	-	-
Queensland	1976-1977	5	8	0	349	143	43.62	-	-	-	1	2	0	-	-	-	-	-
Glamorgan	1990-1993	49	83	11	3382	224*	46.97	-	-	-	10	14	5	-	-	-	-	-

Overrated hack.

 

[Migara]

And the fact with better opposition he tended to take it more serious. So if put against Matshall, Garner, holding and Roberts, he would concentrate it much more.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

And the fact with better opposition he tended to take it more serious. So if put against Matshall, Garner, holding and Roberts, he would concentrate it much more.

He will be forced to play against his natural style and will end up as a wannabe Gavaskar.

 

[Migara]

He will be forced to play against his natural style and will end up as a wannabe Gavaskar.

Not actually the case. Some of the times got out because he was bored. With four such bowlers coming at him, would not be bored easily.

 

[Slifer]

Imo yes. He'd likely not average 50 + overall vs the WI but he would make up the difference some where. And I think it's valid to assume that if some of his great contemporaries could end up with 50+ records while facing WI, then he likely would as well.

 

[kyear2]

With regards to Viv. Would he have averaged 50 vs the W. I attack, likely not. Would he have retired earlier to maintain his 50 average, likely.

But these arguments can't ever lead anywhere because it so much conjecture. Finn's arguments about Wasim's cathing support and the like can't ever be proven one way or another, and each person's career occured as it occured.

The only really good bowling attack during Bradman's time was his own, and England's was very ordinary. We always say that Bradman is worth two players and he would have averaged the same even in the 80's or 90's, but even in his time the only countries he averaged over a 100 against was India and South Africa who he plundered.

And even though was one series, he averaged an excellent 74 vs the W.I and even that was with the help of some drop catches.

So even though Viv didn't face Maco, he did face Hadlee, Imran, Lillee, peak Botham etc.

 

[Pavel]

And the fact with better opposition he tended to take it more serious. So if put against Matshall, Garner, holding and Roberts, he would concentrate it much more.

I disagree, he averaged 62 vs England.

 

[smash84]

If there was one batsman who had the ability to average 50+ against the WI quartet, it was Viv.

He was exceptional against pace bowling and, most of all, he wouldn't be intimidated thereby taking away a huge component of the quartet's bite. Didn't he average exceptionally well in WSC against top class bowling and on some pretty difficult wickets?

It's definitely a possibility.

 

[Slifer]

I really would like to know the argument for those who voted no. You lot really believe that had Viv faced his own attack he wouldn't have ended with a 50 + career average?? Based on what?

 

[ataraxia]

I really would like to know the argument for those who voted no. You lot really believe that had Viv faced his own attack he wouldn't have ended with a 50 + career average?? Based on what?

Based on that he'd be facing against tougher bowlers in general and his test average was already on the margin.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

With regards to Viv. Would he have averaged 50 vs the W. I attack, likely not. Would he have retired earlier to maintain his 50 average, likely.

But these arguments can't ever lead anywhere because it so much conjecture. Finn's arguments about Wasim's cathing support and the like can't ever be proven one way or another, and each person's career occured as it occured.

The only really good bowling attack during Bradman's time was his own, and England's was very ordinary. We always say that Bradman is worth two players and he would have averaged the same even in the 80's or 90's, but even in his time the only countries he averaged over a 100 against was India and South Africa who he plundered.

And even though was one series, he averaged an excellent 74 vs the W.I and even that was with the help of some drop catches.

So even though Viv didn't face Maco, he did face Hadlee, Imran, Lillee, peak Botham etc.

Agree with Bradman and Viv parts.
Wasims case is no brainer.. Better fielding support = better numbers for bowlers

 

[GotSpin]

With regards to Viv. Would he have averaged 50 vs the W. I attack, likely not. Would he have retired earlier to maintain his 50 average, likely.

But these arguments can't ever lead anywhere because it so much conjecture. Finn's arguments about Wasim's cathing support and the like can't ever be proven one way or another, and each person's career occured as it occured.

The only really good bowling attack during Bradman's time was his own, and England's was very ordinary. We always say that Bradman is worth two players and he would have averaged the same even in the 80's or 90's, but even in his time the only countries he averaged over a 100 against was India and South Africa who he plundered.

And even though was one series, he averaged an excellent 74 vs the W.I and even that was with the help of some drop catches.

So even though Viv didn't face Maco, he did face Hadlee, Imran, Lillee, peak Botham etc.

Just conveniently forgetting Bradman’s FC record then

 

[sunilz]

Agree with Bradman and Viv parts.
Wasims case is no brainer.. Better fielding support = better numbers for bowlers

Don't discuss Wasim in this thread.

 

[Slifer]

Based on that he'd be facing against tougher bowlers in general and his test average was already on the margin.

Ok. But assuming he were from say Pakistan/India he'd also face the likes of 80s SL more frequently. If he were Australian, he face England more often. Etc. Again, he'd not likely average 50+ vs them but there's a real possibility he'd make up the slack elsewhere. That's precisely what Javed for example did. Sucked vs WI but was very good/great vs everyone else.

 

[sunilz]

Ok. But assuming he were from say Pakistan/India he'd also face the likes of 80s SL more frequently. If he were Australian, he face England more often. Etc. Again, he'd not likely average 50+ vs them but there's a real possibility he'd make up the slack elsewhere. That's precisely what Javed for example did. Sucked vs WI but was very good/great vs everyone else.

But would Viv's playing style and attitude (carefree) allow him to cash against weaker opponents?
There is a reason both Sehwag and Gilchrist average less than 50.