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***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***
- Thread starter nzfan
- Start date
100% not happening. He's one of the form seamers in the world since 2018.
I get the sneaking feeling it's going to be this side: Latham Young Williamson Taylor Nicholls Mitchell Blundell Jamieson Southee Wagner Patel.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
True.
Though other things that are madness include:
- dropping Jamieson
- dropping Wagner
- going into a test in India with only one front-line spinner.
That would be worse than madness - not even playing the 0.5 spinner leaving just Ajaz.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
This is a situation where you need a decent all-rounder as your third seamer but tbf, even if CdG was available I don't think he'd fit the bill, nor Mitchell.
It's a shame Neesham's bowling doesn't have more variation because he could've been the perfect fit
It's a shame Neesham's bowling doesn't have more variation because he could've been the perfect fit
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
1 main spinner? Not happening Stead already mentioned they will go with 3 spinners. No matter what the deck looks like, it will turn. India will go with 3 spinners so will us. Ajaz and Somerville will play, that's a given. The only toss up is between Santner and Ravindra. I don't think Phillips is even a consideration given the Indian top order is full of right handers. It has to be either Ravindra or Santner. If it is Ravindra then we have a bit more insurance in terms of batting, if they go with Santner you get the experience of playing prior in India and also having done well with the ball. I feel it's going to be Ravindra. They are not going to leave the batter in him.
Don't think Mitchell is a consideration either, one reason is he's a replacement for Devon not a first choice player. Two, his bowling will give nothing in those conditions. He's no CDG with the ball but can definitely bat.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Huh? Santner averaged over 50 on his last tour of India. Seriously, it baffles me as to why he's even in the squad, he shouldn't be anywhere near the starting XI.
Mike5181
International Captain
Not the team I'd go with, but it's honestly better than starting Jamieson at number 7 to accommodate two specialist spin bowlers and the fast bowling trio.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I mean to be fair to him he was the 3rd spinner in the first test and outbowled both Sodhi and Craig and then didn't fare much worse than jeets in the final 2 tests.
In the context of things as a spin bowling all-rounder he did his job ok. edit: especially when you consider he bowled more overs than anyone else in the side.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Who are you more confident will a) take wickets and b) not get totally destroyed and having a fancy taken to them by Indian batsmen at home?
1. 3 of the best pace bowlers in the world
2. 3 random spinners who would not make NZ's test XI in most other conditions?
So say we pick 3 spinners, are we really sure they don't get absolutely smashed by Rohit et al?
Even if the pitch is an absolute dustbowl, do we think Kyle Jamieson or Neil Wagner or Tim Southee are getting smashed?
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Spin bowler doing his job OK: average of 50
So lets apply the same logic to the pace bowlers: if they average 50 will that also be good enough for you?
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Depends - are they also expected to bat 6?
If he was batting 8-11 and asked to be the number 1 spinner then i'd say no, it's not good enough, and hasn't been good enough when he essentially became our number one spinner.
But for that series, he batted ahead of Watling ffs and sent down more overs and took more wickets than guys who make their way as specialist spinners. They all did a pretty crap job but when you consider Santner scored runs as well it seems harsh to single him out when Jeets averaged 48 and Craig 60 something
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Craig had fallen to bits by that stage of his career, and was never very good in the first place. Sodhi is Sodhi and India is always a terrible place for leggies to tour. Santner also dished up pies in Sri Lanka in 2019 on his last Asian assignment and was promptly binned for it.
When it comes down to it, if you're gonna have a bowling average of 50 you have to be capable of doing the heavy lifting with the bat, and I don't rate Santner at all in this regard, even with Bumrah out of the series. He's not nearly good enough to be in consideration for one of the (possibly?) 2 specialist spinner rolls, and I'd honestly rather have Rachin in the side batting at 6 if 3 spinners is what the selectors are looking for. He might dish up some pies, but as the 5th bowler you're only really looking for someone to bowl 10ish overs a day anyway.
When it comes down to it, if you're gonna have a bowling average of 50 you have to be capable of doing the heavy lifting with the bat, and I don't rate Santner at all in this regard, even with Bumrah out of the series. He's not nearly good enough to be in consideration for one of the (possibly?) 2 specialist spinner rolls, and I'd honestly rather have Rachin in the side batting at 6 if 3 spinners is what the selectors are looking for. He might dish up some pies, but as the 5th bowler you're only really looking for someone to bowl 10ish overs a day anyway.
Daemon
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Losing Rohit, Kohli and Pant is massive. 3 of our best batsmen ffs. So mad at the BCCI.
With that injury to Rahul as well we will now be going in with just 3 batsmen that have more than 10 Tests of experience, 2 of whom are in the worst form of their lives.
This will be a lot closer than people think.
With that injury to Rahul as well we will now be going in with just 3 batsmen that have more than 10 Tests of experience, 2 of whom are in the worst form of their lives.
This will be a lot closer than people think.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Oh didn't know that... I remember his 50+ knock and I think he picked 3 or 4 wicket at the same venue. That got me thinking then he's going to be the spinning all rounder we need.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I mean I think in almost any other circumstance I'd go with 3 seamers, Ajaz and Ravindra. But the fact that India have rested Bumrah and Shami whilst playing all of their frontline spinners kinda telegraphs what kinda surfaces we can expect in this series (as if we didn't know already). I tend to agree that 2.5 spinners is the only way to go.