Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
I agree and Ravindra at 6 and Blundell at 7 is a stronger batting combination than Blundell at 6 and Santner at 7. It is important we score at least 400 in the 1st innings.
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***
- Thread starter nzfan
- Start date
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
With the first test two days away, agree with Rachin getting first dibs over Phillips and obviously I don't want Santner in the side.
You'd think we generally go with two front-line spinners and two pacers in India, but am I crazy for saying retaining three pacers and leaving out Somerville (as some have already suggested) looks tempting? Probably. I don't know which seamer I'd leave out, that's one problem. And Somerville has had very little cricket. But he's still a bowler that's had success in Asia and some subcontinent wickets simply invalidate pace bowling. A lot will depend on how NZ assess the pitch will play.
You'd think we generally go with two front-line spinners and two pacers in India, but am I crazy for saying retaining three pacers and leaving out Somerville (as some have already suggested) looks tempting? Probably. I don't know which seamer I'd leave out, that's one problem. And Somerville has had very little cricket. But he's still a bowler that's had success in Asia and some subcontinent wickets simply invalidate pace bowling. A lot will depend on how NZ assess the pitch will play.
ataraxia
International Coach
I think 1.5 spinners + 3 pacers is solid balance for a touring team (esp. one without spin pedigree) in India, as long as we aren't dealing with dustbowls. But I do wonder if it's half a season early for Ravindra. I don't want that to be so, but it is a best vs best series and Rachin's bowling remains unproven in red-ball cricket. Having said that, I'd still play him.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Indian top order has pretty much all right handers in their line up. Only Jadeja and Axar down the batting order are lefties. Also depends on how many left handed bowlers there are to create the rough for Sommerville to come into game. I think both teams just have right handed fast bowlers most big units bar Wagner. I'd consider playing two fast bowlers, 2 main spinners and a backup spinner. I don't yet rate Phillips as a red ball bowler. Obvious choice is Ravindra but our management is very shy of trying new players so they'll likely go with Young for Conway, Either Mitchell at no.7, Ajaz, Somerville, Jamieson and Southee.
Jazz and Rachin turning big and bouncing helmet high
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Yes that's the key question, how much of a dustbowl will it be. Think Rachin's bowling will be fine if we're only considering him as half a bowler. If we do go with just the 1.5 spinners and then regret it, it would be ideal to have Kane throwdowns as another option, though last I heard he doesn't want to bowl because of his hip.
Yes two pacers plus two frontline spinners plus seam-bowling allrounder is the other balance they could go for; I'm assuming they won't though as Mitchell wasn't in the original squad.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Practice wickets are usually not as well prepared as the main ones, so I think you guys will be fine. If it is a dustbowl, it actually brings the teams closer to an extent coz the Kiwi spinners, esp. if both are of the SOK type, become doubly dangerous then.
Nagpur usually is a patta for first 3 days then turns into a dustbowl. The most recent test suggests the same - https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-vs-sri-lanka-2nd-test-1122724/full-scorecard.
This is later in the winter than we usually play in India and so, a 9:30 AM start could mean a lot of swing early on for the seamers as well. But the ball will go old very quickly on the patta track and seamers may not have as much assistance post the first hour. For India, I would expect this line up -
KL
Mayank
Puji
Gill
Rahane (c)
Jadeja
Saha (wk)
Ashwin
Axar
Umesh
Ishant
Nagpur usually is a patta for first 3 days then turns into a dustbowl. The most recent test suggests the same - https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-vs-sri-lanka-2nd-test-1122724/full-scorecard.
This is later in the winter than we usually play in India and so, a 9:30 AM start could mean a lot of swing early on for the seamers as well. But the ball will go old very quickly on the patta track and seamers may not have as much assistance post the first hour. For India, I would expect this line up -
KL
Mayank
Puji
Gill
Rahane (c)
Jadeja
Saha (wk)
Ashwin
Axar
Umesh
Ishant
Moss
International Captain
Think the key is for NZ's batsmen not to get too caught up in the hype around all the talk of dustbowls and rank turners, England's series earlier in the year was instructive. Root and co. seemed spooked after the 2nd test at Chennai and tended to play for a lot of non-existent turn when the series shifted to Ahmedabad.
Having said that, I don't know if three seamers is necessarily the way to go, England did that in the D/N Ahmedabad test (think Root got 5 for 8 in that one) but the selection of the extra seamer didn't help their cause. Agree with straw man - Ravindra should not be relied upon as a full second spinner (neither should Santner). Somerville probably won't give Pujara and others sleepless nights, but will likely do a better supporting job than Dom Bess.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I will definitely look to play my two best spinners esp. given they won you tests in SL and UAE (against Pak). There is no point in selecting more than your two best seamers or in selecting two spinners who both bowl the same stuff basically.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
I'd play Ajaz, Somerville, and Ravindra. Ravindra might be a SLA like Ajaz, but he's a lot taller with a more classical approach as well as hopefully being someone who can average 40+ with the bat in tests.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Yeah when u r playing 3, 2 of the same variety is ok. But if you are only playing 2 and both are SLAs, that is not very bright IMO.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Unless they are both guns such as when Australia played twin leggies in Warne and MacGill.
Moss
International Captain
The first test is in Kanpur actually, though I guess the above probably holds good. Only 1 test has been played there in the last decade, was the first test of the 2016 series between these 2 sides. From memory it turned (not too sharply, but encouragingly enough) from day 1 - NZ picked 3 spinners.
IND vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 1st Test at Kanpur, September 22 - 26, 2016
Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, IND vs NZ, NZ tour of India 2016/17 at Green Park, Kanpur dated September 22 - 26, 2016.
www.espncricinfo.com
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
I see the cricket ground in Kanpur is called "Green Park Stadium". I'm picking that won't be the colour of the pitch.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Kanpur is one of the flattest and deadest tracks in India. The stadium itself is nice and the city is pretty good too but damn is it a flat lifeless wicket there. This being this late into the winter may mean some assistance and swing for the seamers though. How long it will last and how much it will be still remains to be seen. The conditions should aid swing for at least an hour every morning and the SG balls with the manually stitched seam can be like the Duke's at least till about 30-40 overs. Reverse can come into play big time too if the outfield is rough and not lush.
Flem274*
123/5
Heh, what a scorecard. I vaguely remember that game. It lured me into "Santner can bat" thoughts. Even contest with the difference being India were able to easily milk one of our 3 spinners (Santner and Sodhi) each innings.The first test is in Kanpur actually, though I guess the above probably holds good. Only 1 test has been played there in the last decade, was the first test of the 2016 series between these 2 sides. From memory it turned (not too sharply, but encouragingly enough) from day 1 - NZ picked 3 spinners.
IND vs NZ Cricket Scorecard, 1st Test at Kanpur, September 22 - 26, 2016
Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, IND vs NZ, NZ tour of India 2016/17 at Green Park, Kanpur dated September 22 - 26, 2016.
It's pretty instructive. Boult and Wagner bowled very well and some of the batting was quite good without being ruthless enough to go on for the matchwinning score, but we can't offer up a pretend spinner as a full time bowler.
