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Allan Donald vs Michael Holding

The Better Bowler

  • Allan Donald

    Votes: 18 75.0%

  • Michael Holding

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • Total voters
    24
Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
Swann might be a better away conditions bowler by a small amount. Even this is debatable post 2015 (which is longer than Swann’s entire test career), in which period Ashwin averages in the 20s over several series outside Asia and has produced several match winning moments.

Ashwin is a few galaxies ahead as a home bowler though so I don’t think the debate is justified.

That is even before getting into the longevity of Ashwin’s career.
 
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K

Kirkut

International Regular
subshakerz said:
I think people are shortchanging Swann a bit. The reason I rate him highly is his matchwinning ability which is not reflected by raw numbers. He was much better than his numbers show.

From 2009 to 2013, in most series, Swann would produce a matchwinning spell. Any spinner who can consistently win you a match a series, home and away, gets more credit to me then one who does a holding job and averages less.

In 2009, Swann averaged 31 in South Africa, but won England a crucial test in Durban.

In 2010, Swann didn't do much in the series but did seal a victory with a fifer against Australia in Adelaide on a batting wicket, something Ashwin has yet to do in SENA.

In 2011, in England against India, in the series you said he was hopeless, he still sealed a victory with 9 wickets in the last test.

In 2012, Swann won matches in both Sri Lanka and India was good in the UAE.

Plenty of other matches won by him in between and after.

Swann didn't end up with the prettiest figures but he was a tremendous asset for England and one of the big reasons for them going to no.1. His job was to win matches when the pacers couldnt and he did it well.

Ashwin is pretty much a matchwinner in the subcontinent and West Indies thus far in his career. Yes, he improved tremendously in Australia this time around, but I dont expect him running through sides outside of spinning conditions. But to make clear, due to Ashwin's sheer wicket output overall, I think its fair to rank him higher.
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I agree with this. As an Indian fan, Murali did not make me as nervous as Swann did in the early 2010s.

Impact bowler he was, sometimes looked like a proper leader of the attack leaving Jimmy/Broad behind.
 
Bijed

Bijed

International Regular
Teja. said:
Swann might be a better away conditions bowler by a small amount. Even this is debatable post 2015 (which is longer than Swann’s entire test career), in which period Ashwin averages in the 20s over several series outside Asia and has produced several match winning moments.

Ashwin is a few galaxies ahead as a home bowler though so I don’t think the debate is justified.

That is even before getting into the longevity of Ashwin’s career.
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Yeah, bowlers like Ashwin who are excellent in home conditions and anywhere from decent to really quite good away always get bashed disproportionately for the drop-off in performance away as it feels like a big comedown from their home performances. I don't get too much into the ATG debates on here, but just as an observer it feels like sometimes there's too much focus on the gap between performances/numbers in certain conditions rather than the actual quality of the performances.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I have forever said I rate Warner, Sehwag,Anderson and Ashwin quite high and among the greats for this very reason. It means a lot when you are almost a certain match winner 50% of the time and you can still pool in decent to very good to sometimes great performances in the 4 or 5 countries (out of 12 that play test cricket btw) which do not suit your playing style.
 
J

Jayro

U19 12th Man
Ashwin vs Swann shouldn't even be a question when we know how many matches has Ashwin won for India - rest can be speculation of what might have been, the evidence is all what we can go by other than dissecting particulars and nitpicking selective stats out of whole careers.
 
K

Kirkut

International Regular
honestbharani said:
I have forever said I rate Warner, Sehwag,Anderson and Ashwin quite high and among the greats for this very reason. It means a lot when you are almost a certain match winner 50% of the time and you can still pool in decent to very good to sometimes great performances in the 4 or 5 countries (out of 12 that play test cricket btw) which do not suit your playing style.
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I have always had a soft corner for home turf bullies.
 
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