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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

M0rphin3

M0rphin3

International Debutant
^Nah IIRC he never did, can't recall such a phase. Maybe the odd match at worst.

I get the thought though, I'd prefer Rachin to be a batter first too, but surely he can be good enough to fill that allrounder slot. All of the ""allrounders"" (big quotes) picked recently were all mostly shite at either bowling or batting.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, I think at a certain point (possibly after that 2008 series where he really struggled in England), Kallis decided he needed to focus more on his batting in order to continue to be successful (especially seeing as SA weren't exactly hurting for wickets during that period). Became more of an occasional bowler rather than a genuine allrounder.
 
Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
M0rphin3 said:
^Nah IIRC he never did, can't recall such a phase. Maybe the odd match at worst.

I get the thought though, I'd prefer Rachin to be a batter first too, but surely he can be good enough to fill that allrounder slot. All of the ""allrounders"" (big quotes) picked recently were all mostly ****e at either bowling or batting.
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He's good enough to fill the allrounders slot in a home conditions with four seamers plus a 2/3rds spinner as the allrounder (aka Santner). Whether the NZ selectors would agree yet though, I'm not sure - as they need to manage the whole process of introducing him with best chance of succeeding. I would do it.

However. he probably isn't good enough to fill the allrounders slot as a second spinner in sub-continent. That's a whole other level of responsibilities and expectations on his bowling. But he would be good enough to fill the allrounders slot as a third spinner in sub-continent. But that isn't a balance we'd likely be going for.
 
nzfan

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
You'd wonder what hasn't gone right for him in first class cricket though? Yes he was always a classy attacking bat, left handed makes it even more exciting to watch but his bowling was what I was drawn to during the u19 WC in NZ. The loop, turn and bounce with a very repeatable lovely action. Just about right ingredients for a left arm orthodox. I've seen him bowl real well in white ball cricket albeit less wickets to show but for some reason he hasn't kicked on in first class cricket. I think if one is serious about bowling spin they've got to move out of Wellington otherwise you just don't get to bowl enough. Recently reading an article with input from the firebirds coach Ravindra bowls all of 6 or 8 overs in a 4 day match at an average. That's like 4 overs an inning. Even Vettori's strike rate in first class is 62 balls every wicket.

I think the first year of Ravindra's time with firebirds we had Jeetan Patel and to take the ball away from him was impossible. Patel deserved it too having played for many years and a proven performer.

Recently there was a rumour firebirds were trying to entice Ashok to play for Wellington. That would have been a disaster for Ashok.

I reckon if you want to be a decent spinner either you have to go play for CD, ND or Auckland. Wellington, Canterbury and Otago are just not good enough for spinners these days. The decks are not conducive enough to bowl your spinners as wicket taking option. In fact the sides gets bowled out fairly quickly without having to use spinners. Otago still does a good job and bowls Rippon lots of overs.

That said the best year with the ball in first class cricket for Ravindra was last year. I think he did fairly well with the ball from memory.
 
nzfan

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Why is Rippon not spoken as highly here? There are more backers of Phillips here I feel. I don't rate Phillips' bowling to be honest. It's like Jakob Bhula bowling for firebirds and getting few wickets. Pretty nude chuck the ball quick on the pitch sort of bowling. Nothing exciting about it. Don't mind being proved wrong.

I'm not saying Rippon bowls amazing lines and length consistently but he does put fair bit behind it. A left arm chinaman is always handy. The angles make it harder to pick and he can beat the bat inside and outside. Effective against both lefties and right handers. His batting is reasonable. I won't say outstanding but reasonable enough.

Another one less talked about here is Cole McConchie. Fairly experienced player and we're not going to get much out of Somerville as much as we like to see him play. He hasn't done much wrong but has limited number of years and limited with the bat too. There's no reason why Cole can't be looked at seriously. He has played fair bit of NZ A cricket as well.
 
nzfan

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
That sucks...I guess he should now take up playing in South Africa and there's no reason why he can't make the South African side. He's a very useful cricketer.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Seriously, **** INZ. Happy to give Conway’s gf residency in order to provide him with assurances that he’ll be let back into the country but can’t even get off their butts to give Foxcroft a visa. Hope he wins SA selection and hits the winning runs for SA to finally lift a WC.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Who are we supposed to blame for the fact we have 13 Tests in the next Test Championship cycle, only ahead of Bangladesh, and only a single 3-Test series? David White? ICC?

Absolute joke.
 
Moss

Moss

International Captain
SteveNZ said:
Who are we supposed to blame for the fact we have 13 Tests in the next Test Championship cycle, only ahead of Bangladesh, and only a single 3-Test series? David White? ICC?

Absolute joke.
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The dice has generally been loaded against NZ when it comes to drawing up schedules (reasons are well enough known), but NZC I think has to cop a major part of the blame here. You have a side which has been performing to a high standard in test cricket for at least 7-8 years, as well as reaching 2 world cup finals and a world T20 semifinal plus a number of players who are doing quite well for themselves in T20 leagues the world over, surely you'd be able to capitalize on that. But I suppose if you're unable to think beyond Australia/India showing up for the odd 3 to 5 match ODI and T20 series as the highlight of your summer, you deserve what you get.

It's not just the lack of test cricket which has been a problem for me. NZ don't seem to get invited to play any ODI or T20 cricket away from home apart from the games which accompany test tours - Windies, SL, Pakistan all of them seem to enjoy far more commitments on that front. This trend really hurt NZ in 2018-19 for example IMO, when there was only the home season to evaluate world cup contenders and there was no choice but to keep persisting with out of form incumbents.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
SteveNZ said:
Who are we supposed to blame for the fact we have 13 Tests in the next Test Championship cycle, only ahead of Bangladesh, and only a single 3-Test series? David White? ICC?

Absolute joke.
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Tbf, we’re playing the same number of games as WI, SL and Pak and only the usual suspects are playing significantly more than us.
 
The Hutt Rec

The Hutt Rec

International Vice-Captain
Didn’t White say after the last home season that the test match crowds in NZ had been so strong that 3 test series would be more likely? What happened?!
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I'd be sceptical of anything that mentioned crowd figures anyway. Unless you're selling out quickly enough to the point where you can jack up ticket prices it really means **** all. What matters is the broadcasting deals - overseas included.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Shane Bond (and sometimes Jack Cowie) are pretty accepted inclusions in the NZ All Time XI, soooo....

Is it fair for me to put Kyle Jamieson in the Best NZ XI I Have Seen?

It feels desperately unfair on the trio, but Jamieson does look the best NZ bowler I have seen barring Bond.

Few bat an eye at an attack of Bond - Southee - Wagner - Vettori - Cairns but I think I'd get pushback if I went Bond - Jamieson - Wagner - Vettori - Cairns.

How many tests is too few? Because that number could rule out a lot of NZ's most talented players, through no fault of their own.

Of course, you don't neccessarily have to have played test cricket to be one of the best players in a country. Test cricket is just the best format to prove it beyond all doubt. Tom Pritchard is probably one of the best bowlers NZ has produced but he turned down the opportunity to play tests. Do we open the floor to him? I think the consensus is no.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Hmmm, gotta wonder about that. Isn’t the plan for the country to be more or less fully vaccinated by the end of this year? Would certainly be the case for the players by that point.
 
Magrat Garlick

Magrat Garlick

Rather Mad Witch
Bahnz said:
Hmmm, gotta wonder about that. Isn’t the plan for the country to be more or less fully vaccinated by the end of this year? Would certainly be the case for the players by that point.
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New Zealand yes, South Africa no (which will presumably have an impact on Ardern's policy wrt letting South Africans in)
 
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