Top 10 Greatest Fast Bowlers of All Time in Tests?

[bagapath]

my top 10 would probably be

Marshall
Hadlee
Ambrose
McGrath
Imran
Steyn
Lillee
Trueman
Akram
Donald

 

[Burgey]

It's good to see Dale Steyn getting rightful recognition despite only retiring so recently. A genuinely great bowler.

 

[h_hurricane]

I don't know how you could rate Dennis Lillee below Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock or Courtney Walsh tbh. But it's always subjective

Disagree on Donald. It is more than a fair opinion to say Donald > Lillee.

People rightly or wrongly give Lillee the benefit of not touring much in subcontinent, but white lightning doesn't even have that hole in his record. Toured all across the world and was pretty much great almost everywhere.

 

[h_hurricane]

This is also why I rate Gavaskar below other openers who sit in the AT category. Averaged 17 here in the only series he played vs a full strength attack. I usually wouldn't hold it against him given it's so small a sample size, but if Lillee's no good because of four tests in Pakistan and SL, then Gavaskar must be marked down on the same basis. In fairness, I should probably add his stats vs Aus for the ROW in 71/72 when he averaged a hefty 28, if you want to take the sample size out to eight "tests."

Gavsakar played a great back to the walls knock against the same attack, some thing which lead to a great series levelling victory. The full strength attack couldn't win a series at home against a not so strong opposition.

 

[stephen]

Disagree on Donald. It is more than a fair opinion to say Donald > Lillee.

People rightly or wrongly give Lillee the benefit of not touring much in subcontinent, but white lightning doesn't even have that hole in his record. Toured all across the world and was pretty much great almost everywhere.

You'll find many Australians don't rate Donald quite as highly as we perhaps should, given unlike Ambrose he never managed to win a test series against us. In fact part of the reason Steyn is rated so highly over here is that he was the guy who started South Africa beating Australia.

 

[h_hurricane]

You'll find many Australians don't rate Donald quite as highly as we perhaps should, given unlike Ambrose he never managed to win a test series against us. In fact part of the reason Steyn is rated so highly over here is that he was the guy who started South Africa beating Australia.

One of the reasons many Indians don't rate Lillee all that highly is precisely this. He couldn't win a test series against us, even playing at home, against a not so great opposition.

On Steyn vs Donald against Aus, for sure, they were not up against comparably strong teams. The one which Steyn was up against was merely good. The one which Donald was up against was one of the GOAT. Not saying to hold it against Steyn btw. It is unreasonable though, to hold it against Donald. He didn't have the benefit of a great batting line up either.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Slicing stats against one opponent is not always a great thing to do. Sobers record against New Zealand is diabolical, and they were a very weak side during his career.

 

[h_hurricane]

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Another cool Sir RJ stat
Number of overseas series victories

Jadeja - 5 (2 Aus, 2 WI, 1 SL) and more to come
Lillee - 3 (1 Eng, 1 NZ, 1 SL)

 

[Burgey]

Gavsakar played a great back to the walls knock against the same attack, some thing which lead to a great series levelling victory. The full strength attack couldn't win a series at home against a not so strong opposition.

He averaged 17, what's your point? Honestly, was never a player to be feared here save in WSC & in the mid-80s when the Aus attack was barely FC standard save a post-shoulder injury Thommo in 77.

Great stat out of that series was a 40 year old Bob Simpson outscoring and out-averaging Gavaskar who was in his pomp. The man should be embarrassed.

 

[Burgey]

Disagree on Donald. It is more than a fair opinion to say Donald > Lillee.

Poor old Alan was a bit soft in the head when he wasn't taking poles early on, I'm afraid. Good bowler to watch though. Terrific pace.

Donald wasn't great here at all. He demonstrated a heart the size of a split pea and a mindset as hard as a lemonade sandwich. The famous picture of the 99 WC run out was emblematic of his career against Australia. Standing next to the pitch, beaten and crestfallen.

 

[h_hurricane]

He averaged 17, what's your point?

The point is, inspite of a low average, he had one genuinely impactful performance with that sample size.

He didn't average 17 btw.

If you want to hold it against him similar to Lillee's record in 3 countries (WI, SL and Pak), it is fine. What can't be argued though is that Gavaskar performed across a broader set of conditions compared to Lillee.

 

[h_hurricane]

Poor old Alan was a bit soft in the head when he wasn't taking poles early on, I'm afraid. Good bowler to watch though. Terrific pace.

Donald wasn't great here at all. He demonstrated a heart the size of a split pea and a mindset as hard as a lemonade sandwich. The famous picture of the 99 WC run out was emblematic of his career against Australia. Standing next to the pitch, beaten and crestfallen.

Donald had a genuinely great record in Australia (was averaging 23) until he took part in 2001-02 series when he was well over 35 and messed up an impressive record. Even then he averaged a pretty good 28 there. Mcgrath had a worse record in similar conditions at home against SA, so pitches played a part too.
There were some great spells by him in 1997-98 season for sure. In one of those, he made Waugh brothers look pretty silly.

And though out of context, he was great with the ball in 1999 WC semi final as well.

 

[stephen]

One of the reasons many Indians don't rate Lillee all that highly is precisely this. He couldn't win a test series against us, even playing at home, against a not so great opposition.

On Steyn vs Donald against Aus, for sure, they were not up against comparably strong teams. The one which Steyn was up against was merely good. The one which Donald was up against was one of the GOAT. Not saying to hold it against Steyn btw. It is unreasonable though, to hold it against Donald. He didn't have the benefit of a great batting line up either.

Donald's team was a better side than the ones Steyn was in at the start of his career. One often felt like South Africa should have been beating Aus regularly during the 90s but they just never did. Steyn was the difference.

Donald was a fine bowler but one gets the feeling that his stats flatter him somewhat, having played half his career in South Africa. He bowled a very good line and was quick, but was often a bit too short (he was basically a much better Jason Gillespie). This meant his average and economy were usually better looking than his actual in game impact. Not to say he was bad by any means - he would easily have partnered McGrath with the new ball were he born in Australia, only that one should really have expected a bit more in the results column.

The other problem that he had was the his career overlapped some of the finest quicks the game has ever produced - Ambrose, McGrath, Wasim, Waqar, Walsh and Pollock. He was always going to get a little lost amongst such peers, even if he was up there with all of them.

 

[akilana]

Donald was a better bowler than McGrath. McGrath played longer and had more wickets but wasn’t really a better bowler.

 

[Starfighter]

Donald was a better bowler than McGrath.

He really wasn't.

McGrath played longer and had more wickets but wasn’t really a better bowler.

He was better, something that shows up in his average.

 

[ankitj]

Another cool Sir RJ stat
Number of overseas series victories

Jadeja - 5 (2 Aus, 2 WI, 1 SL) and more to come
Lillee - 3 (1 Eng, 1 NZ, 1 SL)

Really? This is true? ?

 

[h_hurricane]

Really? This is true? ?

Of course it is. Believe in Sir RJ

 

[Arachnodouche]

Steyn won series against Aus when they were on the wane. Donald played them when they were running everyone into the ground. Both were some of the most rhythmic bowlers ever but I always thought Donald had a few more strings to his bow (fair disclaimer AD's also my alltime favorite fast bowler). Steyn's stats are great but I've never been able to shake off the feeling that he got a lot of impatient batsmen out with outswing they could've left alone. Of course I appreciate you can't consider wickets in isolation like that, he worked them over to a large degree, but his MO was well-suited to an era when Test batsmen were liable to be more adventurous/reckless with their strokeplay.

 

[bagapath]

all the great bowlers of the current era give away more than 3 runs an over, including Steyn. His average is still so good because of the low SR. While Waqar with the similar ER looked a little profligate for his era, Steyn didn't feel like he was throwing away runs because the scoring rate has gone up overall.

Once again, it is good to remember how cool Donald, Marshall and Truman before them had such gun SR while still going tight on the ER in their respective eras.

 

[Gob]

Could very well be. Then his record in West Indies and against minnow Sri Lanka, and conveniently not touring India stacks heavily against what to suggest.

Again these were one off game each and didn't Lillee performed very well in WI during WSC. Also your suggestion that every wicket in Australia and England during lillee's career as a fast bowler friendly wicket was very ill informed.