*Official* New Zealand in England 2021

[nzfan]

Re Southee: this blokes pretty good huh? I know the Aussie posters will sneer at the comparison, but I think -especially over the past few years - it’s becoming increasingly hard to argue that he isn’t at least on the same level as the likes of Broad.

Can't see why... he's super fit and if he concentrates only on test cricket like Broad did he will snare close to 400 wickets. Surely can play another 30+ test matches. Go down as one of the greats of NZ cricket.

 

[Bahnz]

I know ‘over rate wah’ is a cardinal CW sin, but it has legit robbed this test of like 20 or so overs which in this particular case is actually super relevant

Yeah, it’s been shocking in this test. We lost a full hour of play during NZ’s first innings, and NZ didn’t do too much better during their turn with the ball. I really think it makes for a worse viewing experience as well. I’ve started regularly watching random **** on YouTube and come back to the cricket every 15 minutes or so to 10s skip through all the dead time between balls and overs.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I know ‘over rate wah’ is a cardinal CW sin, but it has legit robbed this test of like 20 or so overs which in this particular case is actually super relevant

yeah tbf one reason why "English journalists" harp on about it a lot is they know a lot of time in their climate will be lost to weather

 

[Prince EWS]

yeah tbf one reason why "English journalists" harp on about it a lot is they know a lot of time in their climate will be lost to weather

But it never rains in England in June.

 

[Chubb]

Would love Dan Lawrence to succeed in test cricket. A state educated, working class Essex kid. But just can’t see it happening right now. Hope he proves me wrong.

 

[thierry henry]

Would love Dan Lawrence to succeed in test cricket. A state educated, working class Essex kid. But just can’t see it happening right now. Hope he proves me wrong.

Huh, how about that. Knowing nothing of his background I just saw him as the epitome of a generic ‘create a player’ English cricketer.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Re Southee: this blokes pretty good huh? I know the Aussie posters will sneer at the comparison, but I think -especially over the past few years - it’s becoming increasingly hard to argue that he isn’t at least on the same level as the likes of Broad.

Since 1 Jan 2018:

Southee 20 tests, 100 wickets at 21.70
Anderson 28 tests, 94 wickets at 22.11
Broad 34 tests, 119 wickets at 23.78

Given the English players get the benefit of bowling with a Duke (balanced by bowling to on average better touring sides than NZ get) I’d have Southee comfortably ahead in that comparison.

 

[Gob]

i thought he retired a while back

 

[Bahnz]

Since 1 Jan 2018:

Southee 20 tests, 100 wickets at 21.70
Anderson 28 tests, 94 wickets at 22.11
Broad 34 tests, 119 wickets at 23.78

Given the English players get the benefit of bowling with a Duke (balanced by bowling to on average better touring sides than NZ get) I’d have Southee comfortably ahead in that comparison.

Southee obviously spends a lot more time bowling on home soil and against weaker opponents. Nonetheless, his efforts v India and England over the past few years show his class.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Southee obviously spends a lot more time bowling on home soil and against weaker opponents. Nonetheless, his efforts v India and England over the past few years show his class.

Even in Aus last year, he copped a lot of criticism, but did take 12 wickets in two tests at 25.75 before getting dropped.

 

[Flem274*]

Southee obviously spends a lot more time bowling on home soil and against weaker opponents. Nonetheless, his efforts v India and England over the past few years show his class.

does he though compared to england? england get nice long 3-5 test runs at india, west indies and huge amounts of home tests in general.

india are #1 true, but their batting has never been up to much in nz and southee has feasted on subcontinental sides during his career. he's also arguably our best quick in asia. height + outswing = perfect to the generic asian batsman.

when you look at southee's record, it's australia and south africa who weigh his record down. england having to play australia every 18 months is a challenge the current nz side would not enjoy, but equally england have copped their fair share of beltings and at least get more practice at australia. anderson and broad also struggle in nz, and i think we are good enough now to count as a bit of a fortress country.

if i were to criticise southee compared to anderson and broad, id say he goes completely missing for 12-18 months at a time home and away. dropping him seems to do the trick, since his last dropping in australia he's been getting noticeably more zip. a real lack of the "122kph swinging early from the hand, dies on the way through to watling" frustrations.

 

[Athlai]

Southee right now is probably better than both, but in terms of career peaks I'd say both are comfortably better.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

What you really want to happen is a media "leak" which says they're considering leaving him out of the final. Same for Ross.

 

[Chubb]

Huh, how about that. Knowing nothing of his background I just saw him as the epitome of a generic ‘create a player’ English cricketer.

He is an example of the other way English kids get into cricket though, his dad is a keen player and groundsman at a local club. There was a good piece comparing him and Crawley (whose parents are loaded) and discussing how England relies on those two channels - private school or parents.

Liam Livingstone is the other batsman I’d like to see succeed because of the massive chip I have on my shoulder about private education and sports.

 

[Flem274*]

What you really want to happen is a media "leak" which says they're considering leaving him out of the final. Same for Ross.

id rest him for the second test and play boult.

nz will go with 5 seamers in the final if at all possible, but we need to look at all our options just in case someone needs cutting.

 

[thierry henry]

He is an example of the other way English kids get into cricket though, his dad is a keen player and groundsman at a local club. There was a good piece comparing him and Crawley (whose parents are loaded) and discussing how England relies on those two channels - private school or parents.

Liam Livingstone is the other batsman I’d like to see succeed because of the massive chip I have on my shoulder about private education and sports.

But his name is ‘Liam Livingstone’ ffs. If these guys aren’t posh they’re impersonating it at minimum.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

It's England though, you have to adjust for their poshness scale, I mean there's a human who's part of their high society who's actual name is Jacob Rees-Mogg.

 

[Apex Predator]

I think Wagner is least effective of all NZ quicks in England & it's not a surprise tbh. But in case Rose bowl track is flat then probably he will be needed.
Boult has to play Southee & Jamieson are locked in as well. Spin plays its part in Rose bowl & Indian batters have struggled against Left arm spin in the past.

 

[Flametree]

Anyone worried about Watling? Since his double ton he's averaged about 20 with the bat, and that was a pretty awful miss last night. Can't be doing that if someone like Kohli shows up with a weakness against bog-standard left arm spin as has happened in the past...

 

[social]

Garner was apparently similar pace to Jamieson.

Joel Garner

One of the several splendid cricketers who has played his part in lifting Somerset to the pinnacle of cricket in England, and West Indies to holders of the World Cup, is Joel Garner, at 6ft 8in the tallest man to have played Test cricket

www.espncricinfo.com

Garner made an effort to bowl quickly later in his career

He was very quick when he wanted to be but there’s some debate as to whether he was a better bowler