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Pitting Don Bradman Against Leaders of Related Sports: An Investigation – Part 1

TheJediBrah

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It goes beyond that IMO - it's also the 'type' of players it attracted early on, vs actual top level athletes (Bradman clearly was one - but there's an argument that most of his competitors weren't necessarily the creme de la creme of sport, they just happened to be there playing it) - think aristocrats/royals playing in top level/international teams just because 'they could'.

Yes, yes, Rohit Sharma vada pav jokes. But the general trend over time is that the 'average' level goes up by quite a distance.
Ok sure but you're comparing it to squash. I don't know about other countries but where I grew up the only people that ever even thought about playing squash, even for fun, were uncoordinated weirdos that couldn't play "real" sports. Equating the difficulty of high performance in squash with cricket, even back in the 1920s, is absurd.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Squash requires muchhhh more stamina. Cricket probably requires command of a greater variety of techniques, but the difference can't be that large except for all-rounders.

Not sure how that makes either superior to the other. In any era and regardless of who is playing the sport.
 

TheJediBrah

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Squash requires muchhhh more stamina. Cricket probably requires command of a greater variety of techniques, but the difference can't be that large except for all-rounders.

Not sure how that makes either superior to the other. In any era and regardless of who is playing the sport.
Neither, but nor is any of that relevant. The only meaningful factor that determines the difficulty of success is the competition (which itself is a result of popularity and fincancial motivation). If you are up against 100 other people trying to be the best at a sport it's going to be a lot easier to be the best than if you're up against 1000.
 

TheJediBrah

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haha didn't mean to imply that cricket isn't a "proper" sport, more just expressing that generally speaking the top athletic youth aren't exactly lining up to play cricket when you've got football, rugby, basketball, even soccer as much as I don't respect it.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Neither, but nor is any of that relevant. The only meaningful factor that determines the difficulty of success is the competition (which itself is a result of popularity and fincancial motivation). If you are up against 100 other people trying to be the best at a sport it's going to be a lot easier to be the best than if you're up against 1000.
With regards to this thread, given Jahangir Khan is being considered, then, for the period in which he played, squash was very popular, especially in Australia. Great Aussie champion Heather Mckay played in the 60s and there was a lot of competition. Definitely comparable to cricket during Bradman's time.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
It goes beyond that IMO - it's also the 'type' of players it attracted early on, vs actual top level athletes (Bradman clearly was one - but there's an argument that most of his competitors weren't necessarily the creme de la creme of sport, they just happened to be there playing it) - think aristocrats/royals playing in top level/international teams just because 'they could'.
There's definitely a grain of truth in that; a fair few "gentleman" amateurs played at a level of cricket their talent didn't necessarily merit.

However there's more than enough evidence of test cricketers achieving success in other sports to suggest they weren't all effete arseholes who couldn't cut it in "proper" sports.

Herbie Collins won an NSWRL premiership with Easts, Warwick Armstrong played in the VFL for South Melbourne, ditto Keith Miller for St Kilda, Wally Hammond played professional football for Bristol Rovers, Dennis Compton ditto for the Arsenal (winning the league in 48 and FA Cup in 50) and Les Ames for Gillingham.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
There's definitely a grain of truth in that; a fair few "gentleman" amateurs played at a level of cricket their talent didn't necessarily merit.

However there's more than enough evidence of test cricketers achieving success in other sports to suggest they weren't all effete arseholes who couldn't cut it in "proper" sports.

Herbie Collins won an NSWRL premiership with Easts, Warwick Armstrong played in the VFL for South Melbourne, ditto Keith Miller for St Kilda, Wally Hammond played professional football for Bristol Rovers, Dennis Compton ditto for the Arsenal (winning the league in 48 and FA Cup in 50) and Les Ames for Gillingham.
  • W.G. Grace was the national champion of 440 yard hurdles and represented England at bowls.
  • C.B. Fry tied the world long jump record, played for England and football and reached the FA Cup final with Southampton, and played for the Barbarians at Rugby.
  • Brian Close played football for Leeds United and Bradford City.
  • Patsy Hendren played football for Coventry City, Queens Park Rangers, Manchester City and Brentford.
  • Bill Edrich played football for Tottenham Hotspur.
  • Reg Foster captained England at football.
  • A.E. Stoddart captained England at rugby union.
  • Ted MacDonald played football and rugby for Victoria.
  • S.M.J. Woods played rugby for England
  • Gregor McGregor played rugby for Scotland
  • Jimmy Sinclair played rugby for South Africa and England
  • Maurice Turnbull played hockey and rugby for Wales and was South Wales squash champion.
  • Victor Richardson played baseball for Australia and represented South Australia at golf and tennis
  • Johnny Douglas won the gold medal in the middleweight boxing in 1908 Olympics in London.
Bradman was a brilliant tennis player and had the opportunity to turn professional if he had not opted to focus on cricket. At 16, he had to choose between tennis, at which he excelled as a country champion, and cricket. He agonised over his decision and never ceased to test himself against the best, taking great satisfaction in beating every Australian Wimbledon player in his era in "friendly" matches.

He was a brilliant squash player and won the 1939 South Australia squash championship having not played squash for nearly two years until three months before the tournament.

He was the best billiards player in the Australian squad during the Ashes tours of 1930, 1934 and 1938. In 1934 he was beaten by the world's No. 1, Walter Lindrum. Bradman's competitive juices flowed. He had a billiards room built in his new Adelaide home. "He practised every day for a year," said Lady (Jessie) Bradman proudly, "and then challenged Lindrum to a return encounter and matched him."

Then in his early 30s, he won multiple sprint races at the Army's School of Physical & Recreational Training at Frankston, Victoria in 1940.

He was a superb golfer who won the Mount Osmond Golf Club championship in 1935 and 1949, and shot under par at every major golf course in South Australia and Victoria. He and continued to play until he was well into his eighties when he regularly ‘broke his age’.
 
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Victor Ian

International Coach
Ray Lindwall played top level Rugby and appeared in 2 grand finals for St George.

Definitely there were players who showed they were proper sportsmen, but it does not prove that the averages of that time were not diluted by lesser quality players being part of the stats. It is not even that they were lesser skilled, even, but that perhaps half the player base had real lives they had to focus on instead of concentrating fully on cricket to make the most of what they had. Z-scores is something, but, like all stats, you need to dig a little deeper.
 

TheJediBrah

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With regards to this thread, given Jahangir Khan is being considered, then, for the period in which he played, squash was very popular, especially in Australia
Sorry but no. Not even remotely compared to cricket at any stage in the last 150 years. Or really by any standard, unless your really stretching
 
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TheJediBrah

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Go out and ask 100 random people to name just 1 professional squash player. I'd be surprised if even one person could do it
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
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So Squash is now played less than dance-sport. DANCE-SPORT. I guess it is finally dead in this country. Back in the 80's there seemed to be squash courts in every suburb that had tennis courts. Now, they have all closed down and it's hard to find the open ones.
 

Engle

State Vice-Captain
Squash, soccer, football, baseball and many other sports never had to endure the type of brutal battering cricketers were subjected to in some of the most vicious series of yore. A point that must be made to counter those who think it is an effete / effeminate sport.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Do I win a prize?

So Squash is now played less than dance-sport. DANCE-SPORT. I guess it is finally dead in this country. Back in the 80's there seemed to be squash courts in every suburb that had tennis courts. Now, they have all closed down and it's hard to find the open ones.
Yes, the great Sarah Fitzgerald said that when she was growing up in the 70s and 80s, everyone around her was playing squash as a hobby. Perhaps TJB doesn't know how popular the sport became in the 60s-90s.

It's definitely petered off in the last decade, afaik.
 

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