Wastemen etc

[karan_fromthestands]

People in general couldn't give 2 ****s whether or not Lillee played in Asia

Yes, hence they think he is better than some of the guys who were easily ahead of him.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yes, hence they think he is better than some of the guys who were easily ahead of him.

Or maybe playing in Asia wasn't as important, especially in the 70s, as people here make it out to be now.

 

[stephen]

Yes, hence they think he is better than some of the guys who were easily ahead of him.

And I'm sure Sachin was better than Bradman because Bradman never toured India.

Lillee was a beast of a bowler and was the best quick since Truman when he played. There haven't been too many since then that have been in the same class as him. Hadlee, Imran, Steyn, McGrath, Ambrose, Marshall and Garner are all there, but given it's been 40 years since he played, 7 players isn't a lot.

 

[Shri]

And I'm sure Sachin was better than Bradman because Bradman never toured India.

this is true

 

[harsh.ag]

And I'm sure Sachin was better than Bradman because Bradman never toured India.

Lillee was a beast of a bowler and was the best quick since Truman when he played. There haven't been too many since then that have been in the same class as him. Hadlee, Imran, Steyn, McGrath, Ambrose, Marshall and Garner are all there, but given it's been 40 years since he played, 7 players isn't a lot.

Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Holding, Roberts, Walsh, Cummins. So, eight more. I would add Asif too but understandably he may have disqualified himself.

 

[Daemon]

this is true

this but unironically

 

[andruid]

this but unironically

This, ironically

 

[Noumenon]

Lillee was a beast of a bowler and was the best quick since Truman when he played. There haven't been too many since then that have been in the same class as him. Hadlee, Imran, Steyn, McGrath, Ambrose, Marshall and Garner are all there, but given it's been 40 years since he played, 7 players isn't a lot

Yeah, nah. Poor dear Lily doesn't belong there with those who have an actual and respectable body of work in all sorts of conditions. But you keep buying in the myth.

 

[Prince EWS]

this is true

Tbf Sachin never toured India either.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, nah. Poor dear Lily doesn't belong there with those who have an actual and respectable body of work in all sorts of conditions. But you keep buying in the myth.

He does. He may have lacked reverse swing skillsets being a product of his time and he may have lacked the all-conditions record, but he was as relentless as McGrath and Hadlee (in his own way), and as skillful as Cummins and Holding. Definitely up there.

Wish he had played in Asia. But he cbf'ed and that's always going to be an asterisk (for me).

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The only myth regarding Lillee is that he didn’t tour Asia because he didn’t want to or was always pulling out with fake injuries. There were no tours except where World Series players weren’t selected. He did pull out injured from the 77 tour of England and that probably cost him 30 wickets.

 

[stephen]

Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Holding, Roberts, Walsh, Cummins. So, eight more. I would add Asif too but understandably he may have disqualified himself.

Lillee was a class above those you mention here with the possible exception of Donald. He was a contemporary of Roberts and everyone rated him more highly. The jury is out on Cummins. Wasim was the closest of those I've not mentioned but wasn't quite up there IMO, even though I tend to put him in my AT side for variety.

 

[Noumenon]

He does. He may have lacked reverse swing skillsets being a product of his time and he may have lacked the all-conditions record, but he was as relentless as McGrath and Hadlee (in his own way), and as skillful as Cummins and Holding. Definitely up there.

Wish he had played in Asia. But he cbf'ed and that's always going to be an asterisk (for me).

I see where you are coming from but lacking any performance of note in those countries, whether by design or cowardice, hard to rate him along those who actually have a substantial body of work in diverse conditions. Hypothetically, if Ponting were to skip all tours of India, many would cite his style of batting and record to make the case he'd have succeeded in India too. But we know he **** the bed hard. Cannot extrapolate in cricket all that simplistically.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

Cannot extrapolate in cricket all that simplistically.

Hasn't stopped you, though.

 

[Burgey]

Donald, Pollock, Wasim, Waqar, Holding, Roberts, Walsh, Cummins. So, eight more. I would add Asif too but understandably he may have disqualified himself.

Wait, do you seriously think Courtney Walsh and Md Asif were better bowlers than Dennis Lillee? Holy **** this is a genuinely terrible take.

 

[Noumenon]

Hasn't stopped you, though.

Poor dear Lily's record in Asia and Windies is not an extrapolation. It's a fact.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

Poor dear Lily's record in Asia and Windies is not an extrapolation. It's a fact.

Your response hasn't proved me wrong, either.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Poor dear Lily's record in Asia and Windies is not an extrapolation. It's a fact.

Yes it is . . .

 

[harsh.ag]

Lillee was a class above those you mention here with the possible exception of Donald. He was a contemporary of Roberts and everyone rated him more highly. The jury is out on Cummins. Wasim was the closest of those I've not mentioned but wasn't quite up there IMO, even though I tend to put him in my AT side for variety.

Nah, you're wrong about this being anything other than the opinions of some people, and definitely not everyone (including their peers).

There is no objective reason to say to someone who believes any of those bowlers are Lillee's equal - "You're wrong."

 

[Noumenon]

Your response hasn't proved me wrong, either.

Oh my. Watch this solipsist flex.