Was 2016 South Africa tour at home the biggest loss for Australia in recent years?

[stephen]

Australia's current pace attack is the best in my lifetime of watching cricket. Better than McGrath/Gillespie/Lee. Warne is what made the McWarne attack better than the current attack.

The tactics used by the current Australian side under sell just how good the individual quicks are. Leadership is a force multiplier and the current leadership is wasting the current bowlers.

 

[Starfighter]

Yep, the bowling unit never seems to actually bowl as a unit (except for a collective decision to bowl short rubbish). That's very much down to the captain.

 

[Slifer]

Australia's current pace attack is the best in my lifetime of watching cricket. Better than McGrath/Gillespie/Lee. Warne is what made the McWarne attack better than the current attack.

The tactics used by the current Australian side under sell just how good the individual quicks are. Leadership is a force multiplier and the current leadership is wasting the current bowlers.

Best Oz pace attack or Best pace attack in general?? If it's the latter, I'm curious to know how old you are.

 

[stephen]

Best Oz pace attack or Best pace attack in general?? If it's the latter, I'm curious to know how old you are.

Best Aus pace attack and IMO the best pace attack since the Windies era.

They're great/ very good pace bowlers that are being very poorly managed.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I know it isn't really a popular opinion here, but honestly I think fast bowling depth is a lot thinner than people realise. As much as I think Starc's problems are being considerably overstated, he does benefit a little bit from the few other legit options being mostly injured at times like this


And yes I know I am one of the most vocal Starc defenders here yet I have a Shane Warne inspired username. No, the irony is not lost on me

 

[Starfighter]

Most teams don't have someone as good as Pattinson and Richardson when they're fit ready to step in, although the physical ceiling has definitely lowered for Pattinson and I think it may have for Richardson too.

That said, like Tremain, I don't see either of Abbott or Neser being able to make the step up to test level.

 

[Starfighter]

The big question to ask is was this worse than the 2010/11 Ashes?

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Most teams don't have someone as good as Pattinson and Richardson when they're fit ready to step in, although the physical ceiling has definitely lowered for Pattinson and I think it may have for Richardson too.

That said, like Tremain, I don't see either of Abbott or Neser being able to make the step up to test level.

I never really rated Tremain, but it's pretty remarkebale how he has went from being hyped up so much to his First Class career practically being dead (or at the very least comatose) in two years

It's not even like it was a Mackin like attack of the yips either, he just seemed to get dropped and hasn't reemerged since

I was supposed to go to the first day of the 10/11 Adelaide Test. In hindsight I'm glad I didnt

 

[Slifer]

Best Aus pace attack and IMO the best pace attack since the Windies era.

They're great/ very good pace bowlers that are being very poorly managed.

Fair enough. Because after all, the WI era did also include gun Pakistan attacks. See the 1990 series WI in Pakistan. Best collection of fast bowling in history.

 

[Starfighter]

I never really rated Tremain, but it's pretty remarkebale how he has went from being hyped up so much to his First Class career practically being dead (or at the very least comatose) in two years

It's not even like it was a Mackin like attack of the yips either, he just seemed to get dropped and hasn't reemerged since

He didn't bowl that well in 18/19, but Boland was worse and played fewer matches. With Siddle leaving and Pattinson generally on test duty or trying not to be injured the spot would be his if he hadn't decided to move back to NSW, which has much greater competition. He's almost certainly still better than Evans and Perry.

 

[Salamuddin]

Hazelwood's better than Gillespie imo. But yea

Not sure about that. Hazlewood hasn't been much chop outside Australia other than the 2019 Ashes and wickets against a weak windies lineup.Jason powered that great Australian team to their greatest achievement - their series win in India in 2004.

Plus their stats are quite similar despite Jason playing 16 more tests. In a couple of years after Australia's next round of subcontinental tours, you can probably judge them more evenly.

 

[Burgey]

Yep, the bowling unit never seems to actually bowl as a unit (except for a collective decision to bowl short rubbish). That's very much down to the captain.

Not sure I agree with that tbh. For large parts of the series India was tracking at or about 2 rpo. That suggests there were extended periods of consistent bowling to a plan by the whole attack.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

He didn't bowl that well in 18/19, but Boland was worse and played fewer matches. With Siddle leaving and Pattinson generally on test duty or trying not to be injured the spot would be his if he hadn't decided to move back to NSW, which has much greater competition. He's almost certainly still better than Evans and Perry.

I think I can recall saying at the time moving to NSW could be career suicide, seems like that is exactly what has happened

 

[Slifer]

Australia's current pace attack is the best in my lifetime of watching cricket. Better than McGrath/Gillespie/Lee. Warne is what made the McWarne attack better than the current attack.

The tactics used by the current Australian side under sell just how good the individual quicks are. Leadership is a force multiplier and the current leadership is wasting the current bowlers.

I'd like to know what Oz did in the 3 other tests, that differed from the first. The Oz did well overall but for the life of me, I couldn't understand why Starc especially wasn't attempting to york the tail enders.

 

[jimmy101]

I'd like to know what Oz did in the 3 other tests, that differed from the first. The Oz did well overall but for the life of me, I couldn't understand why Starc especially wasn't attempting to york the tail enders.

Most likely Paine was instructing him to bowl nothing but short from around the wicket.

 

[Slifer]

If that's the case, then it was pretty daft. Full and straight that's how you get rid of tail enders. And Starc is too experienced to listen to that bs. I pick on Starc only because, he seriously has the potential to run through any line up if he got those yorkers on target (especially against tail enders)

 

[stephen]

I know it isn't really a popular opinion here, but honestly I think fast bowling depth is a lot thinner than people realise. As much as I think Starc's problems are being considerably overstated, he does benefit a little bit from the few other legit options being mostly injured at times like this


And yes I know I am one of the most vocal Starc defenders here yet I have a Shane Warne inspired username. No, the irony is not lost on me

Yeah I personally don't rate Neser too highly. There's a pretty wide gulf between Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc, Pattinson, Jhye and the rest. For all my Bird love (and I legitimately think he should be 6th in line), he is a step down from the big 5.

I never really rated Tremain much either. Watching him live he seemed like a very good domestic bowler and nothing more. To succeed in tests on Australian pitches you need extra pace, bounce or movement and frankly, outside the top 5, nobody has that right now. It's important to remember that Green is one of the best domestic quicks right now, and the batting stock in the shield is probably at a 30 year low, so we're seeing domestic bowlers being over rated.

Tier S - Cummins

Tier 1 - Hazlewood

Tier 2 - Starc
Pattinson
Jhye Richardson

Tier 3 - Bird
Neser

Tier 4 - The rest.

 

[stephen]

By comparison, glory days:

Tier S - McGrath

Tier 1 - Gillespie

Tier 2 - Kasprowicz
Bichel

Tier 3 - Lee

Tier 4 - the rest

 

[jimmy101]

If that's the case, then it was pretty daft. Full and straight that's how you get rid of tail enders. And Starc is too experienced to listen to that bs. I pick on Starc only because, he seriously has the potential to run through any line up if he got those yorkers on target (especially against tail enders)

Absolutely. Ponting was saying the exact same thing in the commentary box as it was happening. I didn't see the point of all of bowling all of that short pitched stuff if they weren't trying to set them up for a yorker.

 

[stephen]

Starc really is either not the sharpest tool in the shed or is being captained horribly right now. He's most effective over the wicket bowling line and length with the occasional short ball to push the batsman back and the occasional Yorker to breach the defenses of a batsman struggling with his pace.

I'd love to know how many wickets he's actually taken from around the wicket. It's such a low percentage angle for him against the right hander unless the ball is moving. And when the ball is moving he's far more deadly from over the wicket because it helps his Yorker so much.