Test dream team from each nation. 1970-2020

[honestbharani]

Lawry
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
Chappell, G
TOTAB (c)
Gilchrist (wk)
Warne
Johnson
Lillee
McGrath

Toughest spots for me are the third quick and a middle order spot between GC and SWaugh.

Third quick was a really tough choice. Really went Johnson because of his batting and the variety of left arm but tbh if I picked purely on bowling it would have been Reid, who was genuinely superb, just ahead of Cummins (still too soon but will probably jag an AT Aus 21st century spot when he's done) and McDermott also in the reckoning - properly underrated bowler.

Doesn't' much matter, the only side going close to the above is the WI team of the same era:

Greenidge
Haynes
Viv
Lara
Kanhai
Sobers (c)
Dujon (wk)
Marshall
Ambrose
Garner
Gibbs

Gibbs could easily make way for one of about three dozen quicks. Take your pick.

Actually think that side edges Australia's primarily due to Sobers as a fifth bowling option and their third quick being a great.

Lawry above Simpson?

 

[aussie tragic]

Lawry above Simpson?

Well considering Simpson the opener retired in 1968, would be hard to make a post 70's side

Would also have Taylor or Slater over post 70's Lawry

 

[honestbharani]

Well considering Simpson the opener retired in 1968, would be hard to make a post 70's side

Nah, I would still sneak him in on the technicality that he did play post 70s, even if that was not as an opener.

Actually, even Hayden seems out of place there. I would go with Lawry-Simpson. And personally, I loved the opening combo of Taylor-Slater. I rate them as high as Hayden-Langer and think they are grossly under rated in such discussions.

 

[aussie tragic]

@honestbharani
Looking at your draft selections, I thought you'd rather Katich & Watson With 54.39 they have the 2nd highest averaging opening partnership for Australia (min 1500 runs)
Only behind Simpson-Lawry (59.93) who were really from the 60's.

 

[trundler]

Think of those guys as 60s players really. Sobers too.

1920-1970

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Hammond
Nourse
Sobers
Ames+
Lindwall
Davidson
Trueman
O'Reilly

#5 could also be Weekes, Walcott, Headley, Barrington or Compton. Laker vs O'Reilly a tie too.

 

[Coronis]

Think of those guys as 60s players really. Sobers too.

1920-1970

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Hammond
Nourse
Sobers
Ames+
Lindwall
Davidson
Trueman
O'Reilly

#5 could also be Weekes, Walcott, Headley, Barrington or Compton. Laker vs O'Reilly a tie too.

Would go Headley personally, never heard Laker specifically compared to O’Reilly but I’d rake O’Reilly everytime. And of course my feelings on Herb > Hutton are well known.

 

[trundler]

never heard Laker specifically compared to O’Reilly

Must've missed the spinner countdown then

 

[Coronis]

Must've missed the spinner countdown then

Yeah probs. Haha idk I’ve always in my head had it as Murali, Warne, O’Reilly, Grimmett, Laker as my top 5 (maybe a little biased having Grimmett above Laker but I love Grum)

 

[honestbharani]

@honestbharani
Looking at your draft selections, I thought you'd rather Katich & Watson With 54.39 they have the 2nd highest averaging opening partnership for Australia (min 1500 runs)
Only behind Simpson-Lawry (59.93) who were really from the 60's.

I love me some allrounders and especially coz with Katich you get the ultra rare left arm leg spinner in the side. Still bitter about him costing Viru a MCG double hundred btw.

 

[ataraxia]

Grimmett, O'Reilly, Warne, Murali, Verity, Laker, Underwood, Rhodes, Tayfield, Benaud is my top 10.

I imagine most would have this:

Warne, Murali, O'Reilly, Grimmett/Laker, Verity, Tayfield, Benaud, Underwood, Rhodes or something similar.

 

[Burgey]

Lawry is absent because the post specifies post-1970, and Lawry averages 32 with 0 100's between Jan 01, 1970, and his last test

he played in the required timeframe ffs. You don’t say “he played 5 tests and did nogood so he’s special needs” ffs. Look at his record. Walks into that Australian side ffs

 

[wpdavid]

I almost didn't read past the OP having Botham at 12th man in the England side; it's not an opinion one reads very often.

Other random thoughts in no particular order. Root's an interesting one, as his performances since becoming captain probably don't get him anywhere near the side, whereas his previous performances make him a shoe-in. I wonder how he'll be viewed in five years' time if his run over the last four years continues. Swann > Underwood for me, even allowing for the former benefiting from DRS. Underwood may not have been quite as dependant on drying wickets as some suggest (300 test wickets ffs) but Swann just seemed to provide a more consistent threat and played all of his tests on covered tracks. Snow's another interesting one. If we are picking them based on peak performances (see also Gooch and Cook), then he gets in for his 1970/71 Ashes. Probably not if we look at his overall 1970s record. Maybe something like:
1. Boycott
2. Gooch
3. Gower
4. Pietersen
5. Thorpe
6. Greig
7. Botham
8. Knott
9. Swann
10. Anderson
11. Willis

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The OP states little in the way of criteria but does say he left out Sobers and other players who peaked before the 70's. That's why Sobers and Kanhai were ignored for the first half of the thread.
Snow was still the best fast bowler available to England in the 70's. He just wasn't always picked, and often not for cricketing reasons.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah, there's probably a sports science PhD thesis waiting to be written about England failing to produce any unarguable ATG great batters or bowlers for nigh on 50 years.

I don't have a proper answer to that either. Maybe it's because uber-talented English sportsmen tend to pursue other sports? And then there's the age-old question of whether our best players develop despite rather than because of our domestic system.

 

[Shady Slim]

Yeah, there's probably a sports science PhD thesis waiting to be written about England failing to produce any unarguable ATG great batters or bowlers for nigh on 50 years.

We've done pretty well on the all rounder front in the time period though: Greig, Beefy, Freddie and now Sir Benjamin all have pretensions to being genuine all rounders at a period in their careers at least.

Don't think any other country has produced anywhere near as many in the same timespan.

yeah but you'd still back symonds over all of them to bowl ten in an ODI

 

[wpdavid]

The OP states little in the way of criteria but does say he left out Sobers and other players who peaked before the 70's. That's why Sobers and Kanhai were ignored for the first half of the thread.
Snow was still the best fast bowler available to England in the 70's. He just wasn't always picked, and often not for cricketing reasons.

Yes, it seems obscene that he didn't tour after 1970/71, and obviously he should have gone to the Caribbean in 1973/74 and Australia 12 months later. I just don't remember his performance from 1971 to 1973 being all that special, and I think he played in most the tests in those home series. That being said, I think he did OK against Australia in 1975 and even against WI when getting on a bit in 1976. I couldn't really argue against picking him ahead of Willis, even if I didn't.

 

[England First]

I almost didn't read past the OP having Botham at 12th man in the England side; it's not an opinion one reads very often.

Other random thoughts in no particular order. Root's an interesting one, as his performances since becoming captain probably don't get him anywhere near the side, whereas his previous performances make him a shoe-in. I wonder how he'll be viewed in five years' time if his run over the last four years continues. Swann > Underwood for me, even allowing for the former benefiting from DRS. Underwood may not have been quite as dependant on drying wickets as some suggest (300 test wickets ffs) but Swann just seemed to provide a more consistent threat and played all of his tests on covered tracks. Snow's another interesting one. If we are picking them based on peak performances (see also Gooch and Cook), then he gets in for his 1970/71 Ashes. Probably not if we look at his overall 1970s record. Maybe something like:
1. Boycott
2. Gooch
3. Gower
4. Pietersen
5. Thorpe
6. Greig
7. Botham
8. Knott
9. Swann
10. Anderson
11. Willis

Poor team really and here’s why.
Thorpe over Root, Bell erm I think not! Both are better in everyway.
Greig over stokes? How? Have you watched england for the last 5 years?
Willis over Broad? For me it’s a given that Broad is clearly better. Broad has been englands best bowler for years now. He will probably finish above Anderson. His stats destroy bobs.
Botham being my 12th man? For all but a few years he was an overweight plodder who took wickets with long hops. His batting was bang average. Couldn’t dig in and defend to save his life. Stokes and Flintoff were better players. Stokes clearly.

 

[grecian]

Poor team really and here’s why.
Thorpe over Root, Bell erm I think not! Both are better in everyway.
Greig over stokes? How? Have you watched england for the last 5 years?
Willis over Broad? For me it’s a given that Broad is clearly better. Broad has been englands best bowler for years now. He will probably finish above Anderson. His stats destroy bobs.
Botham being my 12th man? For all but a few years he was an overweight plodder who took wickets with long hops. His batting was bang average. Couldn’t dig in and defend to save his life. Stokes and Flintoff were better players. Stokes clearly.

I don't particularly agree with WPdavids side, but this is an hideous over-reaction to his post.

How are Bell and Root better than thorpe in every way, Thorpe played in a time when bating on england pitches was harder, and he did well against an Australia team almost the best ever in fact I wanted to pick him ahead of KP, but realised tht would be because I despise KP, but I genuinely think it's a close-run thing, if Warne had held a straight-forward slip catch maybe different.

Greig, didn't see him for England, but the stats are great, I am sure if Stokes continues his form, maybe it will change.

I like Broad, not sure how his stats destroy bob's though, average-wise and whatnot.

A few years hilarious, I dislike the Beefy myth a fair bit, but those few years he was possibly the best all-rounder ever, and afterwards he kept on putting those performances in, winning Test matches, and have no idea how you come up with that defence thing, he had an incredible straight bat defensive technique, which when he wanted to served him well on terrible pitches against great attacks.

My side is closer to yours than his, but in the end I understand his, unlike LT's which wallows in the past as is his wont.

 

[grecian]

Think though that as we will be hopeless against many of these other teams we should go for the draw.

Cook
Boycott
Gower
Pieterson
Thorpe
Root
Stewart
Botham
Greig
Stokes
Flintoff

 

[Lillian Thomson]

My team was self acknowledged as being biased to a certain era. I didn’t take the OP very seriously as he had Stewart as captain and wicketkeeper when he was inept at both.