The protege Ravindra Jadeja vs Shane Warne his early days mentor

[h_hurricane]

You think it's accurate to say that the only reason Lyon is an order of magnitude more effective in Australia than most spinners is because the better pace attack helps him pick up wickets? I'd love for that to be true because I do, and always have, hated Lyon but it's absolute rubbish.

On the one occasion(2018 Adelaide test) when Ashwin actually had world class pace support comparable to Lyon's, he returned with a little better figures(6/149 vs 8/205).

So there is some merit in that argument.

 

[honestbharani]

Lyon got a ton of cheap declaration slog wickets that test. Ashwin was EASILY the best spinner in that game.

 

[stephen]

Ya, and again, Warne's average vs one of the best teams of his era is 40 something. He stat padded vs players who can't play spin.
Jadeja averages 19 vs the two best teams of his era.

The best sides in Warne's era were the West Indies, South Africa and Pakistan.

 

[TheJediBrah]

On the one occasion(2018 Adelaide test) when Ashwin actually had world class pace support comparable to Lyon's, he returned with a little better figures(6/149 vs 8/205).

So there is some merit in that argument.

I'm not arguing against it, just wanted to check if anyone (other than HB of course) actually believed that.

slightly unrelated, but ftr you have a real habit of taking samples of 1 or 2 games and putting them forward as if they are useful data

Lyon got a ton of cheap declaration slog wickets that test. Ashwin was EASILY the best spinner in that game.

You'd hope that Ashwin would get much better figures, look at who each of them they were bowling too

 

[h_hurricane]

Completely missed his point

Are you(or Burgey) saying Harris, Khawaja etc are worse batsmen than Caddick and Harmison ? lol.

 

[srbhkshk]

The best sides in Warne's era were the West Indies, South Africa and Pakistan.

They were the best overall sides, from Warne's perspective of being a spin bowler, the best sides were India , SA and Pakistan,

 

[TheJediBrah]

Are you(or Burgey) saying Harris, Khawaja etc are worse batsmen than Caddick and Harmison ? lol.

That was Burgey's joke, yes. Obviously an exaggeration, but indicative of how terrible Australia's batting line-up was that year. Twice as bad as any other I've seen in my life time.

 

[vcs]

Better hair (that he's able to grow on his own), a face that doesn't look like melted plastic, and a cool moustache as well. Some guys have all the luck.

 

[srbhkshk]

Better hair (that he's able to grow on his own), a face that doesn't look like melted plastic, and a cool moustache as well. Some guys have all the luck.

Doesn't steal his mum's medicines either.

 

[Burgey]

Are you(or Burgey) saying Harris, Khawaja etc are worse batsmen than Caddick and Harmison ? lol.

They were in that series. FMD they were woeful.

Harris - just should ever have been picked and must never play again. Also cost us 3-1 in England. Khawaja is, as I have conclusively proven over the past two years, a pillow and not worthy of an Australian test cap. The Marsh brothers are well, the Marsh brothers ffs. Don't you watch Australian test matches? And until last year Darren Lehmann had made a more recent FC ton than Tim Paine. These guys aren't top shelf, and in that series were terribad tbh.

Which tbf is down to India bowling well against a poor line up, something which will be rectified in Belaz 75710 sized spades this summer.

 

[Burgey]

Better hair (that he's able to grow on his own), a face that doesn't look like melted plastic, and a cool moustache as well. Some guys have all the luck.

The team India facial hair meme is literally the only thing more embarrassing in world cricket than the line up Australia fielded the last time India toured here.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Not to take away from India's bowling that series though. It was very good. We were all pretty confident in Aus that despite fielding virtually a 2nd XI batting line-up we'd still put up easily defendable scores, but India's bowling surprised us.

 

[honestbharani]

You'd hope that Ashwin would get much better figures, look at who each of them they were bowling too

The where matters even more than the who IMO. Given the where makes the who better batsmen.

 

[honestbharani]

despite fielding virtually a 2nd XI batting line-up

So the first XI has only 2 batsmen?

 

[TheJediBrah]

In no conditions anywhere are Harris, Marsh, Marsh or Head as good as Pujara or Kohli

So the first XI has only 2 batsmen?

It's commentary on how important the 2 best batsmen were to the team.

 

[h_hurricane]

but ftr you have a real habit of taking samples of 1 or 2 games and putting them forward as if they are useful data

It is not a good sample size agreed, still a lot less weird than you extrapolating a no sample size to a large sample size.

A clear example is assuming that Jadeja would average 40 in Australia over a long term. Was he ever dominated by Smith or Warner in Australia before averaging 28 in their absence ?

So, a small sample size > no sample size any day of the week.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It is not a good sample size agreed, still a lot less weird than you extrapolating a no sample size to a large sample size.

A clear example is assuming that Jadeja would average 40 in Australia over a long term. Was he ever dominated by Smith or Warner in Australia before averaging 28 in their absence ?

So, a small sample size > no sample size any day of the week.

Nah disagree completely. I don't think there's any chance that Jadeja averages anything close to 28 against Australia over any decent sample size. If anything predicting 40 is being generous.

Also disagree completely with the "small sample size > no sample size". If the small sample is an outlier it's far more misleading than just from estimating from nothing.

 

[duffer]

Comfortably better batsman, fielder and a not hugely worse bowler than Warne. For all the disingenuous talk of Jadeja being useless overseas (he isn't), he's done a good job in unfriendly conditions loads of times and has never been close to as thoroughly humiliated as Warne was whenever he played India.

Jadeja is sometimes left out in favour of ashwin (one of the greatest finger spinners ever) . Warne was outperformed by Colin ****ing Miller and rightly binned.

Solid points, well made.

Jad the lad

 

[stephen]

Yeah, the best India bowling to tour here ever plus the worst Australian batting I've ever seen plus some great batting by Pujara lead to that 2-1 loss. Hard to fault the Aussie quicks that series having to come back out and bowl less than a day after India put up some huge totals. It's very easy to point the finger at woeful selection, batting Finch way out of position and Khawaja batting like a spud.

 

[stephen]

It is not a good sample size agreed, still a lot less weird than you extrapolating a no sample size to a large sample size.

A clear example is assuming that Jadeja would average 40 in Australia over a long term. Was he ever dominated by Smith or Warner in Australia before averaging 28 in their absence ?

So, a small sample size > no sample size any day of the week.

Mate Smith dominated Jadeja in India. But that's unfair, he's dominated everyone everywhere.