The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Daemon]

Don’t think my brain is wired to think this way when rating players. I’d be surprised if anyones was tbh.

Not ashamed to admit I usually have a preconceived notion of how good the player is then adjust my priorities to suit my bias.

For example I give Tendulkar extra points for longevity but don’t really hold it against say, Bond.

 

[honestbharani]

Which is why I gave my weightage considering it to be a statistical exercise. I don't think I can tell you off the top of my head how much weightage I give to a non objective metric as it can vary between players depending on personal taste and bias.

 

[Line and Length]

1. Batting/Bowling average (30%)
2. Batting/Bowling strike-rate (30%)
3. Longevity (10%)
4. Clutch performances (10%)
5. World Cup performance (10% covers 6 & 7 also))
6. World Cup knock-out performance
7. World Cup final performance
8. Viewing perception (5%)
9. Hearsay from famous cricketers/critics (5%)
10. Batting/Bowling Aesthetics

 

[srbhkshk]

Things that have been done well by players I like - 100%
Other things - 0%.

 

[Burgey]

Maybe if the players you like were as good or great as you make them out to be, they'd have done those things well too.

 

[Burgey]

Don’t think my brain is wired to think this way when rating players. I’d be surprised if anyones was tbh.

Not ashamed to admit I usually have a preconceived notion of how good the player is then adjust my priorities to suit my bias.

For example I give Tendulkar extra points for longevity but don’t really hold it against say, Bond.

Everyone does this. Even massive statistical exercises like DOGgos do it, because the weighting you give to your variables will inevitably effect the outcomes.

 

[Daemon]

Which is why I gave my weightage considering it to be a statistical exercise. I don't think I can tell you off the top of my head how much weightage I give to a non objective metric as it can vary between players depending on personal taste and bias.

Yeah if I was to come up with some sort of model then I’d be assigning weightage. I just don’t think we’re really capable of a) doing that mentally and b) applying it consistently

 

[srbhkshk]

Maybe if the players you like were as good or great as you make them out to be, they'd have done those things well too.

idk, I always wanted to believe but it's just hard to claim that Gilly has a good yorker.

 

[honestbharani]

idk, I always wanted to believe but it's just hard to claim that Gilly has a good yorker.

Pretty sure stephen will find a way

 

[trundler]

All great players have great stats and stand out in some way statistically but you don't call them great because of that I'll give you an example. McGrath had a reputation for wrecking top orders and for keeping the best batsmen in check. A clue to this is high percentage of top other wickets. But nobody has that at the front of their mind when rating players.

 

[Red]

Andrew Symonds 100%

 

[TheJediBrah]

All great players have great stats and stand out in some way statistically but you don't call them great because of that I'll give you an example. McGrath had a reputation for wrecking top orders and for keeping the best batsmen in check. A clue to this is high percentage of top other wickets. But nobody has that at the front of their mind when rating players.

A lot of people do don't they?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

1. Quinton de Kock
2. Herschelle Gibbs
3. Hashim Amla
4. Jacques Kallis
5. AB de Villiers
6. Faf du Plessis
7. Lance Klusener
8. Shaun Pollock
9. Makhaya Ntini
10. Imran Tahir
11. Allan Donald

I'd still have Graeme Smith even though Gibbs was a better player - need as much mental toughness in a Sth African team as possible.

 

[Red]

Imagine if Sobers had played 200 ODIs and averaged about 50 and bowled at a decent economy rate while taking a few wickets (which is probably what he would've done, if not better)

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Richards
Kohli
DeVilliers
Sobers
-
Wasim
Garner
Murali
McGrath

You've got 5 frontline bowlers already, a keeper in the top 6, and so many options around what you could do with your last pick.

(This isn't meant to be a Dhoni/Gilchrist thing again, just about how good Sobers would've been in ODI and how much flexibility he'd give a team).

 

[Red]

Or he could have opened, and he would've been really good at it in a similar way to Gilchrist:

Sobers
Tendulkar
Richards
Kohli
DeVilliers
Dhoni
-
Wasim
Garner
Murali
McGrath

 

[honestbharani]

You are planning to pick Sobers in the draft, aren't you?

 

[Red]

You are planning to pick Sobers in the draft, aren't you?

i'm not in that draft, but the chat made me think about him

 

[honestbharani]

i'm not in that draft, but the chat made me think about him

As long as you admit he would have been better than Symonds....

 

[Red]

As long as you admit he would have been better than Symonds....

Slightly better bat. Symonds the better 5th bowler.

 

[ankitj]

Also imagine Graeme Pollock getting chance to play ODIs. He wasn't even old when ODIs were introduced.