Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
The League Cup stays - but with one legged Semi-Finals. That's a great help to fixture congestion.
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***Official*** English Football Season 2020-21
- Thread starter Lillian Thomson
- Start date
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
It's one of many admittedly.
andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
Enter all the clubs into a lottery, to pick the 4 semifinalists. ?
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Honestly the fact the FA have decided to cut prize money in the lower reaches of the Cup by half, shows they have no ****ing regard for lower League teams at all, it's almost a ridiculously counter-intuitive move from an organization that is meant to try to keep all league teams ticking along, not just the big ones, in fact I will say it's nothing short of a ****ing disgrace, utter scumbags.
The Premier League is genuinely all they care about.
The Premier League is genuinely all they care about.
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
I can't claim to watch a lot of women's football and don't know much about the new England manager Sarina Wiegman, but it must be a massive upgrade on Phil Neville.
duffer
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Word out of the Arseverse is that ownership investigated the Pepe deal and it was dodgy as ****. Hence, Raul has been shown the door. Tip of the iceberg apparently, the happenings at the club are shady af.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Given Sanllehi's record that might not be a bad thing. His recruitment has been largely shocking.
duffer
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Edu and Arteta taking the reigns on the recruitment side now.
In fairness to the FA - I don't think it is a good move but I think its harsh to say all they care about is the Premier League. Minus the FA Cup the English FA have a hands off approach and the running of the leagues are left to the Premier League, EFL, National League respectively. Senior staff at the FA are taking pay cuts of 15%, the highest earners pay cuts of up to 30% and aren't getting much revenue coming in when Wembley isn't being used and when it is its without fans and whilst the losing prize money in FA Trophy and FA Vase have been cut its been by nowhere near half and the winning prize money has been maintained completely in both competitions so a side who wins the FA Trophy or FA Vase get the same money they would before.
Clubs from the 2nd to 4th tier and some 5th tier clubs have arguably brought this on themselves - many living way beyond their means even before Covid19 so clubs at these levels struggling will be because of that rather than a drop in prize money which cannot be guaranteed anyway. I'd have preferred the qualifying prize money to be maintained even if it meant cutting the prize money from Round 1 onwards by more then 50% as with no real broadcast revenue below EFL TV deals and to some extent the National League (5th Tier) every little bit of prize money helps. I can understand why fans of lower league football would be annoyed but I'm not sure when they are so hands off with all leagues anyway leaving the EFL, PL and National League to maintain their own divisions that this shows that all they care about is the Premier League.
Not sure about getting rid of the League Cup as fear once you don't have it one year its much easier to get rid of completely, great for the PL teams who on the whole seem to not care massively about it and the prize money is not significant especially when finishing one place higher in PL is worth more financially. Coupled with the fact that most nations only have an 'FA Cup' and not a League Cup and France who did are about to scrap their League Cup this is a nice opportunity to phase the League Cup out. But for smaller teams the cup is another opportunity to face a big team get a nice money-earner. Having said that I'm not sure as even getting rid of 2 legged Carabao Cup semis and having all midweeks impacted either by European football, Premier League football or players training ahead of international breaks the schedule is still very tight.
I wouldn't be against the competition format we have in Lisbon and Germany right now from the last 8 onwards for European competitions next season - even with the catchup games scheduled if a side reaches the Final of FA Cup and Carabao Cup and the semi-finals or final of Champions League or Europa League they will have to play 3 times in a week towards the end of the season and find a likely scenario where you have 6 games in the last 15 days of the season and a European final 3 days later if you are in the Europa League or 6 days later if in the Champions League final.
I wouldn't be against the competition format we have in Lisbon and Germany right now from the last 8 onwards for European competitions next season - even with the catchup games scheduled if a side reaches the Final of FA Cup and Carabao Cup and the semi-finals or final of Champions League or Europa League they will have to play 3 times in a week towards the end of the season and find a likely scenario where you have 6 games in the last 15 days of the season and a European final 3 days later if you are in the Europa League or 6 days later if in the Champions League final.
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well thanks for that, I thought my club for nearly 20 years have invested through our trust owned model in youth, and thought back from the brink of destruction to be run incredibly well, and in profit. Many other clubs, have been run perfectly fine, In fact the majority I'd say. For the FA to be cutting any prize money, that affects lower-League clubs most, when they are struggling through a pandemic, with no crowds and no way to sustain themselves is unthinking at best, deliberately callous at worse, IMHO.
In the end, just cut it more for the winners and semi-finalists, I doubt many are going to be putting their full teams out anyway. Keep the rest as is, not hard. The FA Cup will be utterly devalued next year anyway, pointless pretending otherwise, may as well give money to the teams that need it and care about it.
Nice they are taking a pay cut, FTR how much are they earning now?
Didn't intend it as a dig at your club or EFL clubs in general but to use Wigan as an example, everyone is saying how well run it was, last year for every £1 of revenue that was coming in it was spending £1.68 on wages in the 18/19 financial year - I'm not condoning the actions of IEC, Au Yeung, NLF and all of that mess but 14 clubs in the Championship (clubs from last season) across a variety of 17/18 and 18/19 accounts are spending more money on wages then turnover last season. - source - - effectively someone working in finance who blogs about football finance in spare time. In fairness 3 of those clubs include Promotion bonuses but bear in mind UEFA recommends a limit of 70% spent on turnover, only 5 Championship clubs adhered to this, 3 of the 5 were in receipt of parachute payments.
The odd accounts I've seen for myself haven't made pretty reading, how many clubs could genuinely say if their owner went away for a couple months and didn't put an additional penny into the club they'd be okay based on the revenue they are generating themselves. Perhaps saying they've arguably brought this on themselves is harsh but they've certainly not helped themselves and I'd prefer the FA ring-fenced money for clubs that didn't have broadcast deals that they can plan around. 8 EFL clubs in 2018/19 didn't pay their wages on time at least once, 6 of those outside the Championship and talks about a salary cap were already being mentioned on the outside at least well before this pandemic has hurt clubs. You've also had Derby and Sheffield Wednesday sell stadiums to themselves, something which intentionally or not (I have my own thoughts on this) has helped them pass FFP regulations.
I don't have numbers to hand in League 1 and League 2 but I know many are reliant on their owners.
In terms of FA earnings, given its those earning over 50k taking a 7.5% wage cut, I'd imagine the highest paid taking up to 30% pay cuts are getting a very sizeable some of money but I doubt they'd take pay cuts themselves if finances were still rosey at the FA. Just working out the sums now re Prize money but unless you had prize money go down each round (which arguably defeats the purpose of prize money) I'm not sure you'd actually be able to save the same amount as they are with a cut across the rounds unless you still cut the pay in the earlier rounds. As I said before I don't think its a good move but no one wins out of this financially so not sure about the suggestion they only care about PL - it isn't in the PL's interest to remove the lower leagues when these clubs will often have PL players there on loan. People talk about B teams but it surely only works alongside lower league sides otherwise you might as well just use the PL2 to develop youngsters.
I'd much prefer the Premier League increase solidarity payments to Football League clubs if there was to be any financial aid then to skew prize money to such an extent
What is your club out of interest? Credit if you are profitable as few are and to compete whilst living within your means is harder when most others aren't doing so - 2 of the other 5 clubs I mentioned earlier not in receipt of parachute payments that had 70% or less wage to turnover ratio was QPR (I'm not sure if there was an accounting lag or i'm miscounting seasons lol) and Rotherham who got relegated
grecian
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
My club is Exeter City, and if you are talking about Championship Clubs I agree with you many of them are chasing the pot of gold that is the Premiership and so are run appallingly, hard to feel sympathy for a lot of them. Yet they will not be in the lower rung of the FACup, so not sure of the relevance. it's unsustainable
Obvs some are pretty awful in our League, but as I say most try hard and have well-meaning people trying to run them.
I think things needed to be done in that division and with other clubs, and maybe Covid will put some kind of sense into it. Yet Teams that have been okay run may well need help, as revenue streams almost totally dying is not something that can be wholly budgeted for IMHO.
I don't agree with the wage cap totally BTW, (as we are talking financials in the lower Leagues)I understand the point, but it's ridiculous for a team like Sunderland to have the same budget as Accrington, should be done on revenue created. I mean if we suddenly had a 20 million player from the yoof (no Pothas we haven't got one atm so don't sniff around), if we sold him we wouldn't be able to spend it on players, so the EFL have just not thought that through, or the members wanted to curb the financial clout of big clubs to keep then in the lower Leagues, their lovely crowds, if we ever get them back. Yet as Barry Glendinning says Sunderland have seemed to manage to curb their own success rather spectacularly without a spending cap over the years.
Obvs some are pretty awful in our League, but as I say most try hard and have well-meaning people trying to run them.
I think things needed to be done in that division and with other clubs, and maybe Covid will put some kind of sense into it. Yet Teams that have been okay run may well need help, as revenue streams almost totally dying is not something that can be wholly budgeted for IMHO.
I don't agree with the wage cap totally BTW, (as we are talking financials in the lower Leagues)I understand the point, but it's ridiculous for a team like Sunderland to have the same budget as Accrington, should be done on revenue created. I mean if we suddenly had a 20 million player from the yoof (no Pothas we haven't got one atm so don't sniff around), if we sold him we wouldn't be able to spend it on players, so the EFL have just not thought that through, or the members wanted to curb the financial clout of big clubs to keep then in the lower Leagues, their lovely crowds, if we ever get them back. Yet as Barry Glendinning says Sunderland have seemed to manage to curb their own success rather spectacularly without a spending cap over the years.
Interesting, not heard much about Exeter finances-wise probably a good thing as no news is good news when it comes to the off-field stuff. Have no doubt of well-meaning people trying to run many clubs but whilst to stick with Wigan example, someone like Dave Whelan was a well-meaning owner covered losses and loved the club. But the wage spend was unsustainable at that point and this is a club many say was well-run. Just had a look at your finances looks like the club do abbreviated accounts no mention of profit/loss, operating loss of £702,000 according to club website although hard to say what that mean and a drop in assets and in cash in hand and at bank suggests not the greatest year but has that been invested, moved to another company etc. who knows but still looks like a position 95% of clubs would love to be in considering it seems like regardless of how last year went you've got your finances in control pre-covid.
I know Burton said a while back that they were struggling a bit and this is a side that is probably near the top when it comes to well run clubs in Tiers 2 to 4 easier to have sympathy for them then many other clubs. And agree it can't be wholly budgeted for but they could put themselves in a position where they are not vulnerable to potential financial issues in a non-covid world. Harder said then done as fans on the whole don't really want financial self-sustainability - if a club came up from L2 to L1 but didn't make ambitious 'signings' its a tightrope between being seen as securing the clubs long term future and not investing into the club and being relatively well-run financially doesn't guarantee you'll avoid financial problems now but it'll certainly delay any potential problems if you aren't right on the brink to start with.
On the wage cap I actually completely agree and was just mentioning it to illustrate wider financial issues amongst many clubs but would've preferred a tighter FFP situation that allowed some flexibility for ambitious spending if the club so chooses but not to the extent that wages alone are outstripping turnover. Also fear such a binary cap widens gap between Championship and League 1 - sure once you get promoted you have lots of money to spend theoretically but to expect to pool up enough Championship-ready talent in a couple months and then integrate them into the squad is optimistic. Also means you could just get clubs spending aggressively in the National League, existing contracts won't count to wage bill until a new deal is signed so a National League club could a) become more attractive to prospective owners and b) if they are taken over with someone with money spend big to get promoted get them on longer term deals and in effect play the system. And as you've said it treats Sunderland and Accrington as the same clubs in a financial sense when that is simply not the case.
On FA Cup prize money calculating it the total amount last year if my calculations are correct are £36,024,000, lets call it £36mil. Even if you erased all prize money from the QF onwards you still would end up paying over half of this prize money. Could it have been done better - probably but I'd want non-league clubs to have the money before League clubs - if you restored all prize money before Round 1 - that would already be 4mil of what is an almost halved prize pot this year. One thing I would've done is remove money for Semi final losers and Final runners-up that would have saved £3.6mil but given £2mil would be covering the full payments for qualifying rounds it would be a saving of £1.6mil a small dent into the money the FA decided they needed to save. It potentially could have been a slightly lower % cut but if they had to save around £18million (around half of last years prize money) and they decided to impact the FA Vase and FA Trophy as little as possible (rightly so in my view) these cuts are inevitable imo, the size of the cuts very debatable but either way it would've brought the FA bad press
In the case of a L1/L2 club if they reached round 3 and lost they would normally make £90,000 its £56,629 this year its not ideal by any means to lose any potential revenue but this isn't guaranteed money you've lost out on this is a drop in potential earnings. I can understand the disappointment and even anger to some extent but at the same time I don't think its as bad a move as some have made out when you consider FA staff are taking pay cuts and they have only had small cuts to losing prize money and no cuts at all to winning prize money in FA Vase and FA Trophy we are effectively saying a revenue loss of 1 weeks wages, perhaps 1 and a half for a L2 club. Once again not ideal but something that would be more then covered by a lucrative 3rd round tie and even if not it is hard to imagine a clubs existence hinging on this and if it did - the bigger shame for me is that a club was in a position that they had to reach the 3rd round of the FA Cup to survive anyway. This doesn't automatically make the FA's actions right but I do have some sympathy for them, I'd have cut some of the money from elsewhere as I said prize money for semi-final and final losers but that would've still meant notable cuts to prize money elsewhere