Windies Team Discussion, and Other Related Things Thread

[Tom Flint]

A non-selection to note is that of Nicholas Pooran. The plans for him are clearly white ball cricket it would seem.

Is this his decision or the boards do you think?

 

[Beamer]

In his Instagram interview he basically said he wants to play test cricket but after the accident he chose to prioritise One Day cricket to offer him financial stability and build his strength back up. He said he would love to play it when called upon. Whether that means he is willing to play some 4 day cricket to prove his readiness or not is another question.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The test squad got a session yesterday.

Loving Alzarri's new hairstyle.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Courtesy CWI

 

[JOJOXI]

The 30 man squad for England (if it goes ahead), from which they will choose 25 people, is:

Jamaica: John Campbell, Jermaine Blackwood, Nkrumah Bonner, Paul Palmer Jr, Marquino Mindley

T & T: Daren Bravo, Joshua da Silva, Anderson Phillip, Shannon Gabriel

Windwards: Sunil Ambris, Preston McSween

Leewards: Alzarri Joseph, Jahmar Hamilton, Rahkeem Cornwall

Guyana: Shimron Hetmyer, Veerasammy Permaul, Keemo Paul

Barbados: Jason Holder, Kraigg Brathwaite, Shayne Mosely, Kemar Roach, Chemar Holder, Keon Harding, Shane Dowrich, Shai Hope, Kyle Mayers, Roston Chase, Shamarh Brooks, Jomel Warrican

I have bolded those who I honestly don't have a clue how they have made it into the selectors thoughts. In general I love the bowling options, we have pretty much every base apart from wrist spinner covered comprehensively. However, the batting options are terrible. What on earth the likes of Paul Palmer and Shayne Mosely have done to even merit A team consideration, let alone senior recognition, I'll never know. Still, we should end up with a decent final squad from that.

Who would you have selected in these players places? I presume the majority of those in bold won't be near the XI that faces England if the tour does go ahead. Bonner and Mosely 2 of the top 7 run scorers this season domestically. Mosely has scored more runs than Brathwaite. Not that I want more domestic teams necessarily as you arguably dilute the talent even further but when you have only 6 teams you only have 12 openers to choose from. Understandable they've picked 4 in a preliminary squad that will then become 3. But if you say went to England and asked them to pick 12 openers from the 36 in County Cricket they would struggle, they've already struggled finding a replacement for Strauss and then Cook. The West Indies could have looked to limited over stars but who else does that include in the batting? Gayle, Pollard, Lewis, Simmons. I think Gayle is past it for Test Cricket, I might have picked Pollard a few years back when WI toured Zimbabwe the time before last but not now. Lewis and Simmons perhaps more realistic calls but you look at Hales, Roy playing Test Cricket after impressing in ODIs and the results were not great so I'd understand any hesitancy in not picking Lewis and Simmons until they consistently prove themselves domestically.

The little bit of Mindley I have seen this season he has impressed, Warrican has done decently in the past for Windies A against England although admittedly in West Indies rather then England. I'm largely content with the squad I'm a fan of Leon Johnson so might have tried to sneak him into the preliminary squad at least but barring that not too many major quibbles.

 

[Beamer]

Who would you have selected in these players places? I presume the majority of those in bold won't be near the XI that faces England if the tour does go ahead. Bonner and Mosely 2 of the top 7 run scorers this season domestically. Mosely has scored more runs than Brathwaite. Not that I want more domestic teams necessarily as you arguably dilute the talent even further but when you have only 6 teams you only have 12 openers to choose from. Understandable they've picked 4 in a preliminary squad that will then become 3. But if you say went to England and asked them to pick 12 openers from the 36 in County Cricket they would struggle, they've already struggled finding a replacement for Strauss and then Cook. The West Indies could have looked to limited over stars but who else does that include in the batting? Gayle, Pollard, Lewis, Simmons. I think Gayle is past it for Test Cricket, I might have picked Pollard a few years back when WI toured Zimbabwe the time before last but not now. Lewis and Simmons perhaps more realistic calls but you look at Hales, Roy playing Test Cricket after impressing in ODIs and the results were not great so I'd understand any hesitancy in not picking Lewis and Simmons until they consistently prove themselves domestically.

The little bit of Mindley I have seen this season he has impressed, Warrican has done decently in the past for Windies A against England although admittedly in West Indies rather then England. I'm largely content with the squad I'm a fan of Leon Johnson so might have tried to sneak him into the preliminary squad at least but barring that not too many major quibbles.

My major problem is with Mosely and Hamilton tbh. Hamilton had done nothing for 2 years and Mosely had his first half decent season where most of his ribs came in one knock. I've watched a lot of him and he is unbelievably vulnerable outside off stump.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

It might be time to sticky a West Indies in England tour thread as the Tests are now tentatively scheduled to start on July 8th. We should at least follow the progress up until their cancellation.

 

[JOJOXI]

My major problem is with Mosely and Hamilton tbh. Hamilton had done nothing for 2 years and Mosely had his first half decent season where most of his ribs came in one knock. I've watched a lot of him and he is unbelievably vulnerable outside off stump.

Yeah I certainly would have no problem with no Hamilton in the squad but I'm not sure who you can really pick as a fourth opener. I quite like Johnson and I thought whilst he didn't do enough to absolutely cement his spot as an opener he has done better then some of the other recent openers. However, picking someone who hasn't been knocking the door down with runs and shifting up from batting middle-order for Guyana to potentially opening for West Indies would be a move that would be very open to criticism.

The other nominees to replace Mosely as an opener from domestic cricket - I can't think of anyone else who would really be in the conversation right now

Da Silva who presumably is in the side as a potential backup keeper if he is picked in final squad so he is highly unlikely as a viable opening option.

Devon Smith - does well domestically but would they go back to him after his numerous, largely unsuccessful stints internationally?

Kieran Powell - But for someone who can often look a pretty batsman who doesn't go on and get substantial scores it raises the question of why drop him if you are going to bring him back in despite no hundreds this FC season.

Montcin Hodge - averages under 30 in his career and this season

Tagenarine Chanderpaul - whenever I've seen him he looks like a determined batsman but the sort who against England's seamers will he dig himself into a hole. Taking a shine off the new ball is important but an opener also needs to score runs - averaged 24 this season and I can't imagine England's seamers will give away much.


Chanderpaul Hemraj is probably the only other name that could really factor in here and even then I wonder how his approach might work in England? With no saliva etc. might mean long periods where the play is slow if the pitch is dead and the bowling side 'bowls dry' and if the ball doesn't do much Hemraj may well be in business but the other side of the coin is England produce as green a pitch as possible to try and counter issues with maintaining the ball.

In my mind I can't think of anyone outside of Hemraj v Mosely as a 4th opener - one of Mosely and Paul Palmer won't make the tour as long as Campbell/Brathwaite don't get any positive Covid Tests and complications but if such a situation was to arise then a 4th opener (which would now be a 3rd opener is needed.) You can look outside the squad but availability is one issue and the second is whether there are any supreme openers that you can guarantee will do a better job in Test Cricket then those in the squad. I imagine you only make things worse if you pick Simmons and Lewis in this initial squad and then drop them as well so by selecting them are you effectively deselecting Palmer as a 3rd opener unless there are injuries/health issues.

 

[JOJOXI]

It might be time to sticky a West Indies in England tour thread as the Tests are now tentatively scheduled to start on July 8th. We should at least follow the progress up until their cancellation.

No idea how to sticky such a thread but have just created one

 

[Beamer]

JOJOXI I agree with your analysis. It's a real indicator of our lack of batting options.

I'd have personally gone with Hemraj as his faults are getting himself out after a start, whereas Mosely gas very real technical issues outside off stump.

 

[JOJOXI]

JOJOXI I agree with your analysis. It's a real indicator of our lack of batting options.

I'd have personally gone with Hemraj as his faults are getting himself out after a start, whereas Mosely gas very real technical issues outside off stump.

Think when you have a strong domestic structure a 6 team structure can be great as the step up from domestic cricket to international cricket is not so steep if you have already good players within a structure that ensures only the very best of a good crop of players play. But at times like this it really does highlight gaps - not to say that the FC competition should necessarily include more teams although if you could find a time which suits likes of Canada and USA so they can take part might prove mutually beneficial. But with so few teams you only have 12 opening options at all times from domestic cricket and when you've used some already even if all the options were established domestically you have little options. Perhaps more players playing for teams that they are not from e.g. Reifer and Jangoo might help, much more complicated I imagine as you are not just playing for another county but another country but English County Cricket is good for this I'd argue - some complain about their county not having many Homegrown players from that county but at least it ensures that by and large the best players are able to play County Cricket even if it means moving from say Yorkshire to a less fashionable county like Derbyshire.

And fair enough re Hemraj over Mosely, hopefully if Mosely is a 4th opener he won't be needed on the tour. I wonder fairly or unfairly the largely unsuccessful ODI stint from Hemraj is going against his cause too.

 

[Beamer]

The domestic franchise draft took place yesterday. As usual most franchises only went for their own citizens, with the notable exception of Ashmead Nedd, who will bowl alongside Rakheem the Dream for the Leewards. That's great news as he would not have got a game for Guyana.

Jayden Seales has been chosen by T & T, which again is awesome news. I expect big things from him.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Good to see Nedd getting a franchise team where he would get opportunities to play. I wish that this could have happened with Motie as well(he’s just stagnant right now).

 

[Beamer]

So, the test series is over. I'll be forever thankful to the guys who toured and gave us some cricket, taking 50% pay cuts, living in the bio bubble etc etc. But what comes next? CPL next month and then a possible home test series against South Africa.

The ODI side is relatively settled now and I feel like we're progressing. But we have to do something with this Test batting lineup. SSC, if we play tests against SA in September and everyone is available, what's your lineup? Mine is:

Kraigg Braithwaite
Joshua Da Silva
Darren Bravo
Shamarh Brooks
Roston Chase
Jermaine Blackwood
Jason Holder
Shane Dowrich (wk)
Alzari Joseph/Rakheem Cornwall (depending on the pitch)
Kemar Roach
Shannon Gabriel

Reserves:

Chemar Holder
Rakheem Cornwall/Alzarri Joseph
Shimron Hetmeyer
Keemo Paul

My only caveat is that if they go for Pooran I'd play him ahead of any one of that middle order.

 

[JOJOXI]

I'm not so much for selecting Joshua da Silva as of yet he's not played all that much and even when he has hasn't always opened. I'd prefer him to have another year or so of developing himself and give him the best chance of success rather then throwing him in the deep end potentially struggle on helpful pitches for seamers against (potentially) a South Africa side with a solid bowling attack. A few bad matches and he is under pressure at only 22 and into his 2nd year of senior FC cricket. Certainly think he should be in selectors eyes going forward though. The problem is lack of options though and for that reason I am probably persisting with John Campbell for a bit longer - opening in England not the easiest task and feel it would be harsh to drop him on the basis of one series - which given he was under no pressure before the series just Hope and Brathwaite were I think it would very much be dropping him on basis of this series alone.

I think Shai Hope has to go now though am a fan of him but there are more alternatives to replace him and strengthen the side and Hope has been given every chance (for me understandably) to rediscover his form. I'm surprised Brooks didn't bat at 3 but I'd move him to 3 and play either Bravo or Hetmyer at 4.

 

[Beamer]

I agree that ideally Joshua Da Silva would get more time but Campbell just looked so bad. He may get another play due to a lack of options, let's see.

But yes Hope 100% needs some FC cricket under his belt and someone else needs an opportunity.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Genuinely wouldn't surprise me if they recall Devon Smith tbh



Depressing

 

[Beamer]

Genuinely wouldn't surprise me if they recall Devon Smith tbh



Depressing

Anything but that, please. We have suffered enough.

 

[Beamer]

After sleeping on it, I've done some research on our batting over the last 2 years. Here are the Test averages of the Windies batsmen featuring in this series, over the last 2 years:

Kraigg Braithwaite: 13 matches, 409 runs @ 16.36
John Campbell: 9 matches, 382 runs @ 25.86
Shai Hope: 12 matches: 393 runs @ 17.86
Shamarh Brooks: 6 matches, 369 runs @ 33.54
Roston Chase: 13 matches, 610 runs @ 26.52
Jermaine Blackwood: 4 matches, 249 runs @ 35.57
Jason Holder: 9 matches, 529 runs @ 37.78
Shane Dowrich: 11 matches, 536 runs @ 31.52

I must admit I have not looked at it this way before. What on earth are we doing sticking with Braithwaite, Hope and Chase? Those stats are embarrassing. You're right, dropping Campbell based on those stats would be very harsh. He's like Bradman compared to Braithwaite and Hope. Also, why on earth did we drop Blackwood?

I don;t think anyone could complain if they just ripped up that batting order and started again.

 

[Beamer]

Based on the above, I am revising my XI:

Kraigg Braithwaite (last chance)
John Campbell (last chance)
Shamarh Brooks
Darren Bravo/Shimron Hetmeyer (whoever is in form)
Jermaine Blackwood
Kyle Mayers/Roston Chase (seam bowling option or spin, depends on pitch)
Jason Holder (c)
Shane Dowrich (wk)
Rakheem Cornwall/Alzarri Joseph (depends on pitch)
Kemar Roach
Shannon Gabriel