*Official* West Indies Tour of England 2020

[Jack1]

Well deserved win for England. Hopefully rain doesnt effect the third test

 

[Howe_zat]

Great day of Test cricket. This series is awesome.

 

[Beamer]

England deserved that, they were by far the better team throughout the test. All to play for on Friday!

We lost that yesterday, or rather England took it from us yesterday evening.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Campbell out, da silva in; Gabriel out, Chemar in; Roach out, Rahkeem in


Done this thing

 

[trundler]

Live series going into final test is always excellent.

I have been in awe of how immense Stokes has been. England's best batsman and most valuable player in the world. This lead me to do some digging and at this point in his career Botham had 10 hundreds and 20+ fifers. Can't wrap my head around how immense he must've been.

 

[Beamer]

Campbell out, da silva in; Gabriel out, Chemar in; Roach out, Rahkeem in


Done this thing

Unchanged XI Bajan stylee lol. At least that's what I am reading into Holders post match conference.

 

[grecian]

Live series going into final test is always excellent.

I have been in awe of how immense Stokes has been. England's best batsman and most valuable player in the world. This lead me to do some digging and at this point in his career Botham had 10 hundreds and 20+ fifers. Can't wrap my head around how immense he must've been.

Botham until 1982ish was a supreme cricketer comparable to almost any all-rounder ever, unfortunately after his back injury he became about 40% of the bowler he was, he still took wickets from personality more than anything, but before that he was about an 85 mph bowler who swung it all over the place. lethal.

 

[vcs]

Live series going into final test is always excellent.

I have been in awe of how immense Stokes has been. England's best batsman and most valuable player in the world. This lead me to do some digging and at this point in his career Botham had 10 hundreds and 20+ fifers. Can't wrap my head around how immense he must've been.

Botham after 65 Tests : 3686@37.61, 13 hundreds, 283 wickets@24.98, 21 5ers
Stokes after 65 Tests : 4399@38.58, 10 hundreds, 156 wickets@31.73, 4 5ers

Botham comfortably ahead with the ball and very close with the bat so he's well ahead on paper, but the comparison is pretty legitimate at this point IMO, especially because Stokes' numbers, as good as they are, don't entirely do justice to how good he's been.

 

[ImpatientLime]

stokes is only getting better too. bothams decline was dramatic.

 

[grecian]

Botham after 65 Tests : 3686@37.61, 13 hundreds, 283 wickets@24.98, 21 5ers
Stokes after 65 Tests : 4399@38.58, 10 hundreds, 156 wickets@31.73, 4 5ers

Botham comfortably ahead with the ball and very close with the bat so he's well ahead on paper, but the comparison is pretty legitimate at this point IMO, especially because Stokes' numbers, as good as they are, don't entirely do justice to how good he's been.

Lord Ian bowling had already started it's downward curve by then, from being averaging about 21-22 a few years before, but his batting was probably peak, swings and roundabouts of an all-rounder.

Think Stokes could/should easily end up with a batting average well into the forties, bowling I am not so sure seems to struggle for fitness too much for me, wouldn't be surprised if it ended up roughly where it is.

 

[Howe_zat]

Stokes is much more a Kallis than a Beefy with the ball, it isn't feasible to expect anything more than a 4th seamer's output from him.

Though I do think that in terms of pace, accuracy and skills (just eyeballing it) he does compare quite favourably with a lot of England change seamers we've played in the recent-ish past, like Wood, Finn or Plunkett. In another universe he is still batting at 8 for England and bowling first change.

 

[wpdavid]

I am not so sure about Woakes but Stokes and Curran should start every game for England IMO. A 5-8 of Stokes, Pope, Foakes and Curran sounds very good.

Such a tough call to make for the next test. If England pick their best four bowlers at 8 to 11 then Curran doesn't play and we have two of Archer, Leach, Broad and Anderson batting too high. Which may still be the way to go.

 

[grecian]

Such a tough call to make for the next test. If England pick their best four bowlers at 8 to 11 then Curran doesn't play and we have two of Archer, Leach, Broad and Anderson batting too high. Which may still be the way to go.

I would go Woakes, Broad, Anderson, Leach. if it was up to me.

Yet, gawd knows, we have so many decent options bowling wise you could probably have multiple combinations, but no way curran is a must n the line-up, he's not done anything to suggest that. Honestly wonder if they could drop Pope or Crawley, play Stokes as a bat, England selection is not a straight-forward thing nowadays.

 

[Jack1]

I would pick Woakes, Broad, Leach, Anderson as the bowlers. Plus Stokes who will hopefully be fit to bowl. I believe Woakes, Broad and Anderson are better bowlers than Archer in England.

If Stokes can?t bowl then there?s the option to bat him at 3, Root 4, Pope 5, Buttler 6 then the bowlers mentioned including Curran at 8. As you?d need the fifth bowler.

 

[Pothas]

Anderson, Broad and Archer are the best bowlers. The batting is obviously not as strong with those 3 but it is fine if Bess is playing and hopefully we will start to see more of Archer with the bat.

Curran will still get plenty of chances and would always have Woakes as first replacement in England.

 

[grecian]

I would definitly go for archer over woakes if there was any sign of the traditional Old Trafford pace in this pitch, but it just seemed a pudding, and with a poor waether forecast much more interested in getting seam and swing merchants in than pacemen.

 

[wpdavid]

Botham after 65 Tests : 3686@37.61, 13 hundreds, 283 wickets@24.98, 21 5ers
Stokes after 65 Tests : 4399@38.58, 10 hundreds, 156 wickets@31.73, 4 5ers

Botham comfortably ahead with the ball and very close with the bat so he's well ahead on paper, but the comparison is pretty legitimate at this point IMO, especially because Stokes' numbers, as good as they are, don't entirely do justice to how good he's been.

I don't think comparing their figures after the same number of tests fully works because their career trajectories were polar opposites. As I said earlier, Botham age 21 to 25 plus Stokes 26 onwards would be the perfect career.
I'm trying to work out where 65 tests gets us to for Botham. Maybe the end of 1983? If so, as Grecian said, that's a bit past his absolute prime.

 

[trundler]

I don't think comparing their figures after the same number of tests fully works because their career trajectories were polar opposites. As I said earlier, Botham age 21 to 25 plus Stokes 26 onwards would be the perfect career.
I'm trying to work out where 65 tests gets us to for Botham. Maybe the end of 1983? If so, as Grecian said, that's a bit past his absolute prime.

Where was Botham batting? I notice he has about 700 runs fewer but this makes his conversion rate even more impressive.

 

[wpdavid]

Where was Botham batting? I notice he has about 700 runs fewer but this makes his conversion rate even more impressive.

6 or 7. Probably the latter in the first phase of his career. I don't remember many calls for his to bat in the top 5.

 

[wpdavid]

Anderson, Broad and Archer are the best bowlers. The batting is obviously not as strong with those 3 but it is fine if Bess is playing and hopefully we will start to see more of Archer with the bat.

If I was a betting man, that's what I think the selectors will go for on Friday. My main worry is if the pitch turns out as spin friendly as Tufnell was predicting on TMS today, as I don't think Bess is good enough to capitalise.