• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Ian Chappell's proposed changed to the lbw law

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I don't want it to seem like I think umpires have no place, I think they have a significant place. Significant. I just think the stuff that need to be automated, ie dismissals, should be. Wides, no balls, one short, condition of the ball, over the top sledging, all these things - they need humans to keep the authenticity of cricket. The DRS system can exist as it stands without any influence from the on-field umpire.

Umpire's call has a place in sports like rugby league where your footage can often not be conclusive (obscured bodies etc). But not when you are presented with all the information you need to make a decision.
Lost me here. Umpires don't even try to look for no-balls as it is. If I had to pick one part of the game that needs to be taken away from the on-field umps and should go to automation/tv umpire then it would be no-balls.
 

SteveNZ

International Coach
Lost me here. Umpires don't even try to look for no-balls as it is. If I had to pick one part of the game that needs to be taken away from the on-field umps and should go to automation/tv umpire then it would be no-balls.
Something in the back of my mind told me it was trialed a few years ago in an automated fashion and was decided to be a failure? But yeah, true. On the rare occasion I got hauled into umpiring, I never bothered either unless they were Mohammad Amir style ones.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Something in the back of my mind told me it was trialed a few years ago in an automated fashion and was decided to be a failure? But yeah, true. On the rare occasion I got hauled into umpiring, I never bothered either unless they were Mohammad Amir style ones.
Not sure about automation but I don't see why it would be so hard for the tv umpire to just watch footage of the front line every delivery, and feed the info to the on-field umpire (or just make the call on the big screen) within a matter of seconds.

The situation we have right now is a joke, with blokes bowling massive no-balls all day and no one caring until they get a wicket and then we have to call the batsman back. It's absurd.
 

Bijed

International Regular
Not sure about automation but I don't see why it would be so hard for the tv umpire to just watch footage of the front line every delivery, and feed the info to the on-field umpire (or just make the call on the big screen) within a matter of seconds.

The situation we have right now is a joke, with blokes bowling massive no-balls all day and no one caring until they get a wicket and then we have to call the batsman back. It's absurd.
Yeah, I agree with this. At worst, the TV umpire just has to say "That one was close, give me a minute to check a replay". I guess having the game stop for that on an otherwise total non-event of a delivery could be a bit boring, though. but it should be pretty uncommon
 
Last edited:

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Given the TV ump can basically ask for whatever replay he wants without having to interrupt the live coverage, I think it should be made mandatory.
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah, I agree with this. At worst, the TV umpire just has to say "That one was close, give me a minute to check a replay". I guess having the game stop for that on an otherwise total non-event of a delivery could be a bit boring, though
Wouldn't really have to stop though would it? If it's a fast bowler the decision would be made by the time they're back to the mark and you wouldn't lose a second, even if it's close.
 

Bijed

International Regular
Wouldn't really have to stop though would it? If it's a fast bowler the decision would be made by the time they're back to the mark and you wouldn't lose a second.
Yeah, in most cases you could probably decide either way by the time the next delivery was ready to be bowled, plus spinners really shouldn't be running it close anyway so that'd barely happen. Fast bowlers from the last ball of an over would be the only time there'd be a hold up, I guess
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Yeah, in most cases you could probably decide either way by the time the next delivery was ready to be bowled, plus spinners really shouldn't be running it close anyway so that'd barely happen. Fast bowlers from the last ball of an over would be the only time there'd be a hold up, I guess
Yeah didn't think of that. The other likely effect of such a system is that we'd see a lot less no-balls being bowled in general if bowlers are being pinged for it with regularity, making the system used less often anyway.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Something in the back of my mind told me it was trialed a few years ago in an automated fashion and was decided to be a failure?
It was trialled by the ICC and determined to be cost ineffective (ie - you dont get a significant enough improvement in calling accuracy to justify the cost of a person to make the calls). There's an article about it somewhere on the web that I've linked to on the forums before

The BCCI were going to trial it as HB stated. IIRC the ICC were going to trial it again too at the Women's T20 WC Qualifiers later this year, which have been postponed as well. Not sure what has changed between the last trials and the current ones tbh.

One of he problem's they had was that, as per the Laws of the game, a no-ball needs to be signalled twice. Once as soon as it occurs and once after the ball is dead. This cannot be done if the authority to make the call is taken away from the onfield umpire. There was debate if having no-ball signalled only after the ball was dead would significantly effect the game or not.

From what I was told, the ICC had reassured umpires that they did not have to worry too much about the front foot for really quick bowlers, since its ridiculously difficult to move your eyes up in time to clearly catch the action. Once a lot (relatively speaking) of wickets were being overturned, they had umpires return to watching for no-balls. I don't know exactly when this kicked in, haven't seen stats on accuracy of no-ball calling since the change.

There is also the concern of Associate teams playing under quite different conditions depending on opponent. If Netherlands, for example, play ODI Super League games, they will have to adapt to having DRS available, which they wouldn't have when playing other games like the WT20 Qualifiers. If off-field no-ball calling becomes a thing, it will be another one of those things that is only available in matches for the largest teams, but not the tier below.

I dont remember if the proposed trials will have the third umpire calling no-balls, or another person dedicated to this.
 

Bijed

International Regular
Just put a sensor thing in there and let it detect no balls. Can't be too hard.
With this though, how do you differentiate between something going past the crease that's allowed to (i.e. part of the front foot) and the whole foot going past? Or if the foot goes past the crease, but then swings back slightly and part of it ends up grounded (no idea if this happens tbh). I'm sure it's possible, I just can't quite work out how specifcally it would work whilst being foolproof. Plus the bowler can do whatever they like once they've delivered the ball, so presuambly you'd have to get someone to switch the sensor off as the ball is released?

Also, I guess you'd have to have separate sensors each side of the stumps so that the non-striker can't accidently set it off by moving around the crease, altough that should be easy enough if they can get it working in concept
 
Last edited:

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
With this though, how do you differentiate between something going past the crease that's allowed to (i.e. part of the front foot) and the whole foot going past? Or if the foot goes past the crease, but then swings back slightly and part of it ends up grounded (no idea if this happens tbh). I'm sure it's possible, I just can't quite work out how specifcally it would work whilst being foolproof.

Also, I guess you'd have to have separate sensors each side of the stumps so that the non-striker can't accidently set it off by moving around the crease, altough that should be easy enough if they can get it working in concept
I was trying to get a rise out of *****'s need to suck up to authority. Stop being reasonable
 

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
With this though, how do you differentiate between something going past the crease that's allowed to (i.e. part of the front foot) and the whole foot going past? Or if the foot goes past the crease, but then swings back slightly and part of it ends up grounded (no idea if this happens tbh). I'm sure it's possible, I just can't quite work out how specifcally it would work whilst being foolproof. Plus the bowler can do whatever they like once they've delivered the ball, so presuambly you'd have to get someone to switch the sensor off as the ball is released?

Also, I guess you'd have to have separate sensors each side of the stumps so that the non-striker can't accidently set it off by moving around the crease, altough that should be easy enough if they can get it working in concept
If you place a sensor strip that's just adjacent to the back edge of the popping crease, that should in theory work, right? So long as the bowler manages to make some contact with his front foot on the strip, he's fine. I think it's a legal delivery if the foot lands behind the crease and then gets dragged forward, so that should be taken care of as well. They'll have to think of some way for it not to get set off by the non-striker though.
 

Bijed

International Regular
If you place a sensor strip that's just adjacent to the back edge of the popping crease, that should in theory work, right? So long as the bowler manages to make some contact with his front foot on the strip, he's fine. I think it's a legal delivery if the foot lands behind the crease and then gets dragged forward, so that should be taken care of as well. They'll have to think of some way for it not to get set off by the non-striker though.
Presumably you'd still need someone telling the sensor when it needs to be checking for contact though? The only important time for the foot to be on the sensor is at the exact moment of delivery - I guess you could get the umpire to acitvate it with a remote control of some kind when the bowler starts their run up/passes the umpire or something, then if the sensor reigsters nothing in the next x amount of time it calls a no-ball, then it switches itself off again - if it was on all the time it would presumably be constantly calling no-balls at any given moment that nothing's touching the crease.

I guess the umpire would still need to keep an eye out in case the bowler delivers with their entire foot behind the crease, in which case the system would wrongly call a no-ball. Also, am I right in saying it's ok if some of the foot is in the air but behind the line? That could prove tricky too
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
How does the foot fault thingy in Tennis work? Something similar would be viable here, I would assume. But I am pretty sure the cost of it all would rule it out as a consistent option, esp. now that ICC has decided all T20s between countries are T20Is.
 

SteveNZ

International Coach
always thought that ump’s call was to do with the interval of uncertainty in the tracking system?
It is, or I believe it is. But why then allow the influence of the actual umpire's call, which is far more uncertain than DRS' margin of error? Makes zero sense. There's nothing I've ever heard that's put me off a simple solution - more than half ball out, less not out. No influence over the technology, which we know is a superior decision maker.

Here's your example: tight Test, team X are nine down. Big lbw shout. Team Y have a review left, Team X don't. Team X are at home. Subconsciously, the umpire thinks 'Team Y has a review' so he gives it not out, because then he knows there's the ability to check it - which there isn't if he gives it out (and that's happened in the past). It's umpire's call, so it stays not out. Now I might say well that's not a bad thing, because if there's doubt and it's that tight, then maybe not out is the right call. But the influence of the human decision over technology is just wrong.

Not to mention if an lbw is grazing the varnish, it remains out if it's been given on field. 0.50 of ball is out, 0.49 is not. It's a fair system. Umpires can learn to cop it
 

Top