TheJediBrah
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lol that has to be the winner for any decent sample
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CW decides the 32 best test* opening batsmen of all time - The countdown thread!
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
ataraxia
International Coach
On a very similar note, Walcott is 70 to 40.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The '50-'51 Ashes bumps about 4.8 runs off his away average. Averaging 7.6 for a series is probably not the best for one's figures.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Michael Clarke
62 at home
40 away
24.5 neutral
62 at home
40 away
24.5 neutral
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
#15: Bill Lawry (69 points)
Lists featured on: 13/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 7th (1)
Lawry is the last person on this list to not crack the top 5 of anyone's submitted lists. He featured on a lot of people lists, never getting higher than 7th, but clearly being in their top 15 openers. I think that says a lot about him.
The 'corpse with pads on', Lawry's approach to captaincy was criticised but his approach to opening can be best described as selfless and professional. In hindsight he is known for being 'self-denying and courageous' in contrast with a common opinion of Boycott as 'self-serving', despite low strike-rates and solid defense being a signature feature of both their games.
Lawry had close to a balanced record, despite a huge away-home disparity. Averaging 56 at home and 39 away - though of course 39 as an opener isn't exactly terrible it seems at home he was a machine. Against nations he averaged 48 against England from 29 tests, 69 against the Windies from 10 and 36 against South Africa from 14. In South Africa he averaged 27 from 9 matches and this is the big thorn in his away record. Peter Pollock and Proctor gave him a tough time and he's a big reason their limited test careers are so fondly remembered. The 4-0 drubbing in 1970 was also quite damaging to Lawry's reputation as Australian captain.
In ashes matches, home or away he generally flourished as a batsman. Matthew Elliot was said to remind a lot of people of Bill Lawry - his amazing 1997 series can be compared to Lawry's 1961 performance. To go with their similar batting styles and physical similarities. Lawry in this '61 tour scored 2 test tons and at Lords he firstly survived then bravely took on fearsome short pitched bowling from Trueman and Statham to make 130.
In a 1965 test against the WI at Bridgetown he scored a double ton in the first innings and unbeaten fifty in the second - retiring hurt on that occasion. Hall and Griffith were the main bowlers and he proved his ability against them time and time again.
Lawry is one of only 7 test openers to have carried their bat twice in tests and both times he stood firm when the rest of his side crumbled. 49* out of 107 in 1969 test in Delhi - India's side featuring 3 of the 4 spin quartet members. As well a 60* out of 116 in a 4th innings collapse in an 1971 SCG ashes match. This was in his third last test - his defensive captaincy had become increasingly more criticised around his time and he was famously sacked soon after.
His batting too had certainly slowed to a crawl by this stage too. This 60* took 229 balls and 267 minutes but of course that can understood. A 56 in the first innings of the next test took 191 balls and over 4 hours. This day 1 knock helped laid the foundation for Australia to reach 493 - but the match ending up drawn overall was not a good look for Lawry. Personally I think it's harsh he was eventually judged on the same style that he was praised for a decade earlier but it is what it is.
Lists featured on: 13/29
Top 5 finishes: 0
Highest finish: 7th (1)
Lawry is the last person on this list to not crack the top 5 of anyone's submitted lists. He featured on a lot of people lists, never getting higher than 7th, but clearly being in their top 15 openers. I think that says a lot about him.
The 'corpse with pads on', Lawry's approach to captaincy was criticised but his approach to opening can be best described as selfless and professional. In hindsight he is known for being 'self-denying and courageous' in contrast with a common opinion of Boycott as 'self-serving', despite low strike-rates and solid defense being a signature feature of both their games.
Lawry had close to a balanced record, despite a huge away-home disparity. Averaging 56 at home and 39 away - though of course 39 as an opener isn't exactly terrible it seems at home he was a machine. Against nations he averaged 48 against England from 29 tests, 69 against the Windies from 10 and 36 against South Africa from 14. In South Africa he averaged 27 from 9 matches and this is the big thorn in his away record. Peter Pollock and Proctor gave him a tough time and he's a big reason their limited test careers are so fondly remembered. The 4-0 drubbing in 1970 was also quite damaging to Lawry's reputation as Australian captain.
In ashes matches, home or away he generally flourished as a batsman. Matthew Elliot was said to remind a lot of people of Bill Lawry - his amazing 1997 series can be compared to Lawry's 1961 performance. To go with their similar batting styles and physical similarities. Lawry in this '61 tour scored 2 test tons and at Lords he firstly survived then bravely took on fearsome short pitched bowling from Trueman and Statham to make 130.
In a 1965 test against the WI at Bridgetown he scored a double ton in the first innings and unbeaten fifty in the second - retiring hurt on that occasion. Hall and Griffith were the main bowlers and he proved his ability against them time and time again.
Lawry is one of only 7 test openers to have carried their bat twice in tests and both times he stood firm when the rest of his side crumbled. 49* out of 107 in 1969 test in Delhi - India's side featuring 3 of the 4 spin quartet members. As well a 60* out of 116 in a 4th innings collapse in an 1971 SCG ashes match. This was in his third last test - his defensive captaincy had become increasingly more criticised around his time and he was famously sacked soon after.
His batting too had certainly slowed to a crawl by this stage too. This 60* took 229 balls and 267 minutes but of course that can understood. A 56 in the first innings of the next test took 191 balls and over 4 hours. This day 1 knock helped laid the foundation for Australia to reach 493 - but the match ending up drawn overall was not a good look for Lawry. Personally I think it's harsh he was eventually judged on the same style that he was praised for a decade earlier but it is what it is.
Last edited:
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Bill Lawry and Geoff Boycott had the same resolute attitude to batting but were quite different in personality and technique.
England First
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
He couldn’t carry boycotts jock strap. Similar averages but boycott made runs against West Indies quicks and Lillee and Thompson. And opened in English conditions. Hardest place in the world to bat is england. Especially for openers. Brings down everyone’s average. Look at Gooch cook and Atherton. Hell even Trescothick and stress would have been pushing 50 in other countries.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
In that case James Anderson should really average close to 40 with the ball.
John Wright had the same average as Atherton but was a much better player.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
I was comparing attitudes - their determined drive to occupy the crease were similar. I never said anything about averages.
TheJediBrah
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Strong username to post ratio
harsh.ag
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Boycott did dodge Lillee and Thomson in 74/75 and '75. Also averages less away. And Tresco averages 15 less away (51 vs 36).
Burgey
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This is a terrible post and indefensible in its inaccuracy wrt Boycott, who as has been pointed out dodged Lillee & Thommo and missed the WI in 76. Fine player but the idea he was a great player of those blokes is a flat out lie.
Lawry a terrific player too. To say Boycott is miles better or not in the same league is a woeful take.
For 2000+ runs Ponsford is second, the top 10 being:
Darren Bravo: 26.78/51.19
Bill Ponsford: 40.90/62.40
Mohinder Amarnath: 30.44/51.86
Ken Barrington: 50.71/69.18
Wally Hammond: 50.07/66.33
Alan Knott: 26.72/42.27
John R Reid: 25.15/38.66
Eddie Barlow: 40.97/54.10
Charles Macartney: 36.09/48.96
Arthur Morris: 41.18/53.78
The top 10 for being better home than away are:
Rohit Sharma: 88.33/26.31
Bob Cowper: 75.79/33.33
Mominul Haque: 57.41/22.30
Vijay Hazare: 69.56/35.97
David Warner: 65.94/33.17
George Headley: 77.56/47.45
Lawrence Rowe: 59.55/29.48
Clyde Walcott: 69.84/40.47
Usman Khawaja: 52.97/24.36
Mudassar Nazar: 53.63/26.56
England First
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
So your main point of agreement is boycott ducked Lillee& thomo and the West Indies in 76? Did boycott have special powers (other than being englands greatest opener since 1970) by knowing who Jeff Thompson was? How did he know Lillee would be in prime form after a broken back? He also made plenty of runs against Lillee and Thompson in his career anyway. As for the West Indies in 1976 once again nobody really knew how hostile they were. He made a hundred in the Port of Spain in 1973. Look at him playing Marshall garner holding Croft in England in 1980 and the Caribbean in 1981. True brilliance from a 40 year old man. Perhaps never matched against that attack when they were prime like in 81. Your argument is terrible, not mine. I know my opening batsmen.