The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Gnske]

You know, everyone said that about Guptill too (albeit the worst defensive technique of the lot). I don't buy the theory totally when it comes to that type of opener.

But refresh my memory, have there been any uber aggressive openers with sketchy defensive techniques who have flourished at test level when dumped to the middle order? I have no doubt I'm missing someone incredibly obvious. Excluding any middle-order bats who may have been forced to open at the start of their careers.

 

[trundler]

Not sure about sketchy defence but Trumper did better at 5. Aggressive openers are rare though.

 

[stephen]

The Roar put out their voted on best Ashes XI:

Hobbs
Hayden
Bradman
Smith
Ponting
Miller
Gilchrist+
Warne
Johnson
Lillee
McGrath

A few contentious picks in that lot (mostly due to recency bias and national bias). I'd have had:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Smith
Waugh
Miller
Gilchrist+
Warne
O'Reilly/ Trueman (pitch dependent)
Lillee
McGrath

 

[TheJediBrah]

lol 10 Aussies and 1 pom

didn't really make much of an effort to be neutral did they

 

[GoodAreasShane]

lol 10 Aussies and 1 pom

didn't really make much of an effort to be neutral did they

Yeah I know.

WTF is Hobbs doing there

 

[stephen]

lol 10 Aussies and 1 pom

didn't really make much of an effort to be neutral did they

It was vote on by their readers, most of whom were Australian. Honestly though the only truly contentious picks were Hayden and Johnson and both have arguments for them. Hutton though was more deserving and there are a ton of quicks who should have been ahead of Johnson, even with that 13/14 Ashes.

 

[harsh.ag]

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Smith
Border
Botham
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
O'Reilly
McGrath

 

[Line and Length]

Interesting discussions on opening pairs (Greenidge/Haynes, Haydn/Langer, Simpson/Lawry, Taylor/Slater etc).
However, in terms of ATG this is only a discussion about who's best behind (and well behind!) Hobbs/Sutcliffe.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It was vote on by their readers, most of whom were Australian. Honestly though the only truly contentious picks were Hayden and Johnson and both have arguments for them. Hutton though was more deserving and there are a ton of quicks who should have been ahead of Johnson, even with that 13/14 Ashes.

If that's the case I'm very surprised Hobbs and Miller got in

 

[ataraxia]

If that's the case I'm very surprised Hobbs and Miller got in

Miller probably got through through some clause like "top-voted all-rounder".

 

[stephen]

It was Miller vs Botham and Miller just squeaked through. Some bright spark put Hayden against Sutcliffe and Hutton against Hobbs. So the three English openers were in the top 4 nominations

 

[stephen]

Interesting discussions on opening pairs (Greenidge/Haynes, Haydn/Langer, Simpson/Lawry, Taylor/Slater etc).
However, in terms of ATG this is only a discussion about who's best behind (and well behind!) Hobbs/Sutcliffe.

Most of this talk is post-war.

 

[Line and Length]

Most of this talk is post-war.

Good point!

 

[trundler]

Would you have Smith + Trueman as your 6/8 or Miller + Botham?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Would you have Smith + Trueman as your 6/8 or Miller + Botham?

So choose between 4 bowlers and 5 bowlers with weaker batting?

 

[trundler]

So choose between 4 bowlers and 5 bowlers with weaker batting?

Well yeah. Miller and Botham both bring a lot to the table but the specialists they'd replace are elite. Interesting thought.

 

[Red]

10 test minimum, only looking at actual Ashes records. 16 man squads:

Lawry
Morris
Bradman
Smith
Miller
Border *
Gilchrist +
Warne
Lillee
Alderman
McGrath

Davidson, OReilly, Hussey, SWaugh, Gregory



Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Hutton
Barrington
Hammond
Botham
Ames +
Larwood
Snow
Barnes
Trueman

Willis, Bedser, Underwood, Flintoff, Greig

 

[Red]

Combined:

Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Bradman
Smith
Hammond
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
Alderman
McGrath


I would gladly take Hutton as an opener in place of Hobbs or Sutcliffe, this is where England have a real edge. I think in Ashes contests, Barrington vs Smith could be argued. I don't think any England bowler deserves in over any of the Australian 4.

 

[harsh.ag]

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Smith
Border
Botham
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
O'Reilly
McGrath

Gilly walking in at 8 with either Miller or Bradman. Heh.

 

[Line and Length]

10 test minimum, only looking at actual Ashes records. 16 man squads:

Lawry
Morris
Bradman
Smith
Miller
Border *
Gilchrist +
Warne
Lillee
Alderman
McGrath

Davidson, OReilly, Hussey, SWaugh, Gregory



Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Hutton
Barrington
Hammond
Botham
Ames +
Larwood
Snow
Barnes
Trueman

Willis, Bedser, Underwood, Flintoff, Greig

Alderman was good but where is Lindwall?

Snow and Willis were devastating on their day but Willis was more durable.