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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread (white ball edition)

stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
TheJediBrah said:
It was a bit boring to watch at times. They were unbeaten in 2003 but at least had some scares (England, NZ, SL semi-final). 2007 there wasn't even a close game.
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It was fascinating to watch probably the most dominant world cup we will ever see from anyone. Shaun Tait was simply incredible for that cup as well, for the only time in his career. I did feel bad for the Sri Lankans having to bat in the dark though.
 
sunilz

sunilz

International Regular
Yeah standout batsman have only 4 MOM in entire decade. Kohli gets these many man of the match awards in a month.
Bevan to Tendulkar in ODI is like Dravid to Lara in Test.
 
h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
TheJediBrah said:
4K runs a small sample size? jfc
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It is all relative isn't it ?

Bevan scored 3922 runs in 90s (60@77)

Tendulkar scored 8571 runs in 90s (43@87)

Purely as an opener, Tendulkar scored 6270 runs (49@91)

Here is how I will put it.

As an overall batsman in 90s, Tendulkar would be just about better given the huge sample size, though it is really close. If you are comparing them in their preferred positions, Tendulkar as an opener is better than Bevan the middle order bat, though Bevan wasn't all that behind. Someone who could average and strike like that is gold.

When I meant Bevan wasn't a step up over Lara or Ponting, I meant whole career. Stephen brought 90s into picture after that.

I rate Bevan very highly as well but Stephen seems to massively overrate him :)
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
h_hurricane said:
It is all relative isn't it ?

Bevan scored 3922 runs in 90s (60@77)

Tendulkar scored 8571 runs in 90s (43@87)

Purely as an opener, Tendulkar scored 6270 runs (49@91)

Here is how I will put it.

As an overall batsman in 90s, Tendulkar would be just about better given the huge sample size, though it is really close. If you are comparing them in their preferred positions, Tendulkar as an opener is better than Bevan the middle order bat, though Bevan wasn't all that behind. Someone who could average and strike like that is gold.

When I meant Bevan wasn't a step up over Lara or Ponting, I meant whole career. Stephen brought 90s into picture after that.

I rate Bevan very highly as well but Stephen seems to massively overrate him :)
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I compared Kohli in the 10s you Bevan in the 90s in how far ahead of their middle order contemporaries they are. 90s Bevan vs 90s Tendulkar is akin to 10s Kohli vs 10s Rohit.
 
sunilz

sunilz

International Regular
stephen said:
So what you're saying is that Ponting and Sangakkara were better test batsmen than Tendulkar?

Records | Test matches | Individual records (captains, players, umpires) | Most player-of-the-match awards | ESPNcricinfo.com
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You are telling me that difference between 16 and 14 is same as 35 and 4 .
If Bevan was as good batsman as his ODI average in 90s, he would have atleast 15 to 20 man of the match award not paltry 4.
Scoring 30 and 40 not out and averaging 70 is not the same as scoring 70 and 70 in both innings.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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stephen said:
It was fascinating to watch probably the most dominant world cup we will ever see from anyone. Shaun Tait was simply incredible for that cup as well, for the only time in his career. I did feel bad for the Sri Lankans having to bat in the dark though.
Click to expand...
I didn't. Game was well and truly over by then.

sunilz said:
Yeah standout batsman have only 4 MOM in entire decade. Kohli gets these many man of the match awards in a month.
Bevan to Tendulkar in ODI is like Dravid to Lara in Test.
Click to expand...
MOM awards is a largely pointless stat. Depends on way too many other factors.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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sunilz said:
You are telling me that difference between 16 and 14 is same as 35 and 4 .
If Bevan was as good batsman as his ODI average in 90s, he would have atleast 15 to 20 man of the match award not paltry 4.
Scoring 30 and 40 not out and averaging 70 is not the same as scoring 70 and 70 in both innings.
Click to expand...
the former can actually be better depending on circumstance
 
vcs

vcs

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Throw all the statistics you want at it, it's going to be very hard to convince anyone who watched a decent amount of ODI cricket that there was anyone better than Tendulkar at ODI batting in the '90s.
 
sunilz

sunilz

International Regular
FTR I have no problem if you rate Bevan above Tendulkar in 90s . Guy was immense ODI batsman. But there is no doubt that his batting average was boosted by lots of not out. Difference between his average and RPI is huge.

Viv Richards with average of 47 has better Man of the match award to ODI played ratio than Sachin. So Bevan wasn't as good ODI batsman as his average of 60.

I mean Kohli averages 60 now and he is much better ODI batsman than Bevan .
 
h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
stephen said:
I compared Kohli in the 10s you Bevan in the 90s in how far ahead of their middle order contemporaries they are. 90s Bevan vs 90s Tendulkar is akin to 10s Kohli vs 10s Rohit.
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Bevan was clearly the best middle order bat over the period he played in 90s, but also bear in mind that he played only five odd years that decade.

Bevan never really belonged to any decade in fact, and it is best to compare him to other batsmen over full career.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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vcs said:
Throw all the statistics you want at it, it's going to be very hard to convince anyone who watched a decent amount of ODI cricket that there was anyone better than Tendulkar at ODI batting in the '90s.
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This is the main factor for me. Statistically it is entirely reasonable to rate Bevan equally, or higher. But watching the 2 actually play there is a clear winner, and it's not Bevan.

sunilz said:
But there is no doubt that his batting average was boosted by lots of not out. Difference between his average and RPI is huge.
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and there it is
 
jimmy101

jimmy101

Cricketer Of The Year
I was never a big fan of popcorn. It's like eating 20 packets of chips at once, just dries your mouth out after a while & you end up getting bits stuck in your teeth.
 
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