The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[ataraxia]

Jock Cameron is a player who never seems to get any love. He was by all accounts superb with the gloves and more than capable with the bat.

Someone who deserves more mention in these kids of discussions..

CW is very diverse when it comes to selecting the SA keeper. Boucher, Waite, Lindsay, Cameron, and ABD are all frequently brought up. Lee Irvine another option. Want to know why people often select Waite; interested.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Highest Average as WK(Minimum 2000 runs)

1. ABD : 57

2. Flower : 53

3. Gilchrist : 47

4. Ames : 43

5. de Kock : 41

6. Watling : 41

7. Prior : 40

8. Sanga : 39

9. Dhoni : 38

10. Baristow : 38

11. Mushfiqur : 37

12. Sarfaraz : 36




If we are picking WK batsman, Flower or Gilchrist or maybe ABD is the option.


As a pure wicket keeper, the best from what I heard about was Bob Taylor.

ABDV is definitely an option. He was a pretty good keeper. Not as good as Gilchrist but a long way ahead of Flower.

 

[Logan]

I am really surprised that Andy Flower is regarded so badly as a WK.

 

[h_hurricane]

I think it has to do something with the fact that a drop from Flower is more likely to cause a loss to Zimbabwe than a drop from Glichrist to Australia. Hence the perception will always be that he will be a poor WK. Unless someone can come up with a statistical evidence of drops per opportunities.

Not saying he was as good as Gilly by the way.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think it has to do something with the fact that a drop from Flower is more likely to cause a loss to Zimbabwe than a drop from Glichrist to Australia. Hence the perception will always be that he will be a poor WK. Unless someone can come up with a statistical evidence of drops per opportunities.

Not saying he was as good as Gilly by the way.

I find the opposite tends to be the case. People who never really saw him much just assume that he must have been a decent keeper because he did it so much. Even on this site you have people who barely watched him play and openly admit to not remembering much still inexplicably arguing against people who saw him a lot, and even actual Zimbabwe fans who followed him closely during his career, because, for some reason, they have a hard time believing that he wasn't a good keeper.

 

[Logan]

The problem is there are absolutely no stats to say he was a bad WK or he was a good one.

 

[Bolo.]

I find the opposite tends to be the case. People who never really saw him much just assume that he must have been a decent keeper because he did it so much. Even on this site you have people who barely watched him play and openly admit to not remembering much still inexplicably arguing against people who saw him a lot, and even actual Zimbabwe fans who followed him closely during his career, because, for some reason, they have a hard time believing that he wasn't a good keeper.

Hardly anyone on this site actually watched him keep a fair amount in tests. For someone who played so recently, we have almost no first hand knowledge of how good he was

 

[Logan]

Hardly anyone on this site actually watched him keep a fair amount in tests. For someone who played so recently, we have almost no first hand knowledge of how good he was

This is so true. How many of us have actually watched Zim bowling and paid attention to Andy keeping?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Watched him. He was bad.

 

[Bolo.]

Watched him. He was bad.

Tests specifically?

I watched him in a few, but remember nothing.

 

[Logan]

Watched him. He was bad.

I saw a few Zim matches but barely remember anything.

 

[honestbharani]

I have watched him keep quite a lot but I don't recall much either way. Which usually means they did a decent job. Wicket keeping and umpiring are similar in that regard that if you don't really notice them, then they are most likely doing a pretty good job.

 

[bagapath]

Watched andy keep quite a bit. dont rememebr him being messy. he was fine.

 

[Logan]

I have watched him keep quite a lot but I don't recall much either way. Which usually means they did a decent job. Wicket keeping and umpiring are similar in that regard that if you don't really notice them, then they are most likely doing a pretty good job.

If he was extraordinarily bad like some people say, I am sure we would have remembered it. Being the only world class cricketer in his country makes him more great IMO.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's also a possibility that my memory is better than yours when it comes to this particular case.

 

[Daemon]

OS has a ridiculous memory so I’m inclined to believe him

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, not easy to remember multiple username and passwords and to change the proxy server at the different logins

 

[honestbharani]

Nah.. if anything, using his memory for all that will leave very little for actual cricket recollection. So I am sure he is wrong.

 

[Spark]

There are definitely people on this website who have watched a pretty decent amount of Zimbabwe cricket. Especially since in those days Zim was a much more prominent team than it is today.

 

[h_hurricane]

I find the opposite tends to be the case. People who never really saw him much just assume that he must have been a decent keeper because he did it so much. Even on this site you have people who barely watched him play and openly admit to not remembering much still inexplicably arguing against people who saw him a lot, and even actual Zimbabwe fans who followed him closely during his career, because, for some reason, they have a hard time believing that he wasn't a good keeper.

Actually, I started watching cricket a few years before Flower debuted in 1992 WC. Also followed some of the series which he played in late 90s sporadically, but I don't remember during the commentary stints those days, many commentators having a go at Flower's keeping. He certainly wasn't a great keeper. We all know that. Unless some one could bring some stats about crucial misses match after match, it is unfair to dump him as a truly rubbish keeper imo.