Days of Grace
International Captain
I will be posting 1,2,and 3 together very shortly.
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DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen Countdown Thread
- Thread starter Days of Grace
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Thirimanne IMO.
OverratedSanity
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He might have if he'd played 50 innings
OverratedSanity
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This adjusted peak average of 70 would probably not dip any further even if you stretched it to 1968. Basically a full decade averaging an adjusted 70.
ataraxia
International Coach
Upholding my previous prediction of:
4. Sobers
3. Hobbs
2. Smith
The likes of Clem Hill and Victor Trumper's real averages were about 3 runs above those modern players who came about the same spot as them. There's an 8 run difference between Hobbs and Smith and over half of Hobbs' career was interwar. Expecting Smith to place higher than Hobbs despite the former's short career to date. Peak and NHA won't make too much difference.
4. Sobers
3. Hobbs
2. Smith
The likes of Clem Hill and Victor Trumper's real averages were about 3 runs above those modern players who came about the same spot as them. There's an 8 run difference between Hobbs and Smith and over half of Hobbs' career was interwar. Expecting Smith to place higher than Hobbs despite the former's short career to date. Peak and NHA won't make too much difference.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I said it before, I am never the biggest fan of including current players in an exercise like this as their careers are not complete and therefore its not really an apples to apples comparison. It does give a nice pointer to what they have achieved so far but at least with the fab 4, there is a whole lot of cricket left in their careers, I would venture to say 40-50% more.
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Steve Smith did achieve the 2nd highest icc rating of all batsmen, ab opportunity all players past and present had. Fair enough if he finishes 2nd. At the end of his career will be fun to see where this same methodology rates him. Will be in top 10 regardless I think.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
yeah, I am not doubting the fairness of the method. I am just saying that it has to be kept in mind that whether it is Smith or Kohli or KW or Root or Warner or Pujara, these guys have not completed their careers yet and in this system, we are comparing them to people who already have. I personally find it easier to rate the retired as a seperate category instead of direclty comparing them against currently active players. That is all. No doubt Smith has earned his top 3 ranking here and the fact that his name is a contender in most AT XI discussions.
Days of Grace
International Captain
No.3
Steve Smith (Australia) 928
Quality Points: 873
Career Points: 55
Career/Runs: 2010-present, 7227 (rank 62)
Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 60.07 (62.84) 52.73 (55.17) 50.72 (55.30) (rank 3)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (2015-2019): 73.30 63.04 51.75 (rank 4)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 56.20 51.64 50.93 (rank 5)
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 62.98 55.98 51.10 (rank 5)
With a unique technique and at present more run-scoring machine than man, Steve Smith has reached the stratosphere of 900+ points. In some ways he is like Garfield Sobers in that he debuted as a spin bowler and lower order batsman before maturing into a no.4 with an insatiable appetite for runs. His current averages are scarcely believable. In fact, Smith and Bradman are the only batsmen to rank in the top 5 in all quality criteria. It will be interesting if he can maintain these rankings as we move into the 2020s. But such is his current lead over 4th place that he would have to suffer a sustained loss of form to lose his top 3 position. On the other hand, he may even challenge Jack Hobbs as the greatest after Bradman. We will watch and wait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIMrCSDZ49E
Steve Smith (Australia) 928
Quality Points: 873
Career Points: 55
Career/Runs: 2010-present, 7227 (rank 62)
Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 60.07 (62.84) 52.73 (55.17) 50.72 (55.30) (rank 3)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (2015-2019): 73.30 63.04 51.75 (rank 4)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 56.20 51.64 50.93 (rank 5)
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 62.98 55.98 51.10 (rank 5)
With a unique technique and at present more run-scoring machine than man, Steve Smith has reached the stratosphere of 900+ points. In some ways he is like Garfield Sobers in that he debuted as a spin bowler and lower order batsman before maturing into a no.4 with an insatiable appetite for runs. His current averages are scarcely believable. In fact, Smith and Bradman are the only batsmen to rank in the top 5 in all quality criteria. It will be interesting if he can maintain these rankings as we move into the 2020s. But such is his current lead over 4th place that he would have to suffer a sustained loss of form to lose his top 3 position. On the other hand, he may even challenge Jack Hobbs as the greatest after Bradman. We will watch and wait.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIMrCSDZ49E
Days of Grace
International Captain
No.2
Jack Hobbs (England) 949
Quality Points: 888
Career Points: 61
Career/Runs: 1910-1925, 5410 (rank 39)
Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 59.56 (56.94) 55.48 (53.04) 52.98 (50.94) (rank 2)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (1910-1925): 71.65 65.92 56.26 (rank 3)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 64.66 60.49 55.23 (rank 2)
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 57.43 54.19 50.39 (rank 8)
The Master: The greatest between Grace and Bradman, and still ranked as the 2nd best test batsman after the Don. Jack Hobbs was 31 years old when the British Empire declared war on Germany in August 1914. Up to that point, he had played 28 test matches and averaged 57.33 in the Golden Age (1892-1914) when the runs per wicket average was 26. This would be equivalent to averaging in the early 70s today. After losing his peak years to the war, he came back to the field somewhat from 1920-1930, averaging 56.63 on easier batting surfaces. And yet he remained the “Master” on sticky wickets, particularly in combination with Herbert Sutcliffe. Another point that should be made is that Hobbs was not a glutton for runs. He only has one double century to his name and had a reputation in first-class cricket for getting out soon after reaching his century. The mind boggles as to what he would have averaged if he had Bradman’s or Smith’s appetites. His pre-war runs combined with sustained excellence over a long career earns Hobbs the no.2 spot. Which is fitting since no other batsman apart from Bradman was so dominant over his contemporaries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Keupf5Cts7s
Jack Hobbs (England) 949
Quality Points: 888
Career Points: 61
Career/Runs: 1910-1925, 5410 (rank 39)
Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 59.56 (56.94) 55.48 (53.04) 52.98 (50.94) (rank 2)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (1910-1925): 71.65 65.92 56.26 (rank 3)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 64.66 60.49 55.23 (rank 2)
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 57.43 54.19 50.39 (rank 8)
The Master: The greatest between Grace and Bradman, and still ranked as the 2nd best test batsman after the Don. Jack Hobbs was 31 years old when the British Empire declared war on Germany in August 1914. Up to that point, he had played 28 test matches and averaged 57.33 in the Golden Age (1892-1914) when the runs per wicket average was 26. This would be equivalent to averaging in the early 70s today. After losing his peak years to the war, he came back to the field somewhat from 1920-1930, averaging 56.63 on easier batting surfaces. And yet he remained the “Master” on sticky wickets, particularly in combination with Herbert Sutcliffe. Another point that should be made is that Hobbs was not a glutton for runs. He only has one double century to his name and had a reputation in first-class cricket for getting out soon after reaching his century. The mind boggles as to what he would have averaged if he had Bradman’s or Smith’s appetites. His pre-war runs combined with sustained excellence over a long career earns Hobbs the no.2 spot. Which is fitting since no other batsman apart from Bradman was so dominant over his contemporaries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Keupf5Cts7s
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Days of Grace
International Captain
No.1
Don Bradman (Australia) 1360
Quality Points: 1293
Career Points: 67
Career/Runs: 1928-1948, 6996 (rank 28)
Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 91.96 (99.94) 80.47 (87.45) 65.73 (61.05)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (1930-1946): 101.18 93.09 70.24
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 93.56 81.08 63.52
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 86.66 78.64 65.82
There's nothing I can state about Sir Donald Bradman's skill with the willow that hasn't already been written by scores of cricket writers. Instead I will stick to the stats. The gap between Bradman and Hobbs is a massive 411 points. And yet there are only 270 points between Hobbs and Hanif Mohammad at no.100. That alone should convince anyone that Bradman is not only the greatest cricketer ever but probably the best sports athlete of all time when you look at the sheer chasm between himself and the rest of the field. The Don’s lowest adjusted average across all measures is 86.66 and he ranks 1st in all quality criteria. There will never be another like him. Most sports records are there to be broken. In all likelihood, Bradman’s 99.94 will stand alone forever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBz7akP-Nao
Don Bradman (Australia) 1360
Quality Points: 1293
Career Points: 67
Career/Runs: 1928-1948, 6996 (rank 28)
Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 91.96 (99.94) 80.47 (87.45) 65.73 (61.05)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (1930-1946): 101.18 93.09 70.24
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 93.56 81.08 63.52
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 86.66 78.64 65.82
There's nothing I can state about Sir Donald Bradman's skill with the willow that hasn't already been written by scores of cricket writers. Instead I will stick to the stats. The gap between Bradman and Hobbs is a massive 411 points. And yet there are only 270 points between Hobbs and Hanif Mohammad at no.100. That alone should convince anyone that Bradman is not only the greatest cricketer ever but probably the best sports athlete of all time when you look at the sheer chasm between himself and the rest of the field. The Don’s lowest adjusted average across all measures is 86.66 and he ranks 1st in all quality criteria. There will never be another like him. Most sports records are there to be broken. In all likelihood, Bradman’s 99.94 will stand alone forever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBz7akP-Nao
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Days of Grace
International Captain
Thanks for your support and feedback everyone!
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So Smith is the best batsman of the last 70 years. The best batsman to have played exclusively after WWII. Trailing only Bradman and Hobbs right now. We're definitely witnessing something special with his career. I've never seen someone with such an insatiable appetite for runs. A man who almost won a series for Australia in India, England and Australia, the most diverse set of countries to play in, conditions- wise.
It's a privilege to see him play, to watch his career unfold and to know that somewhere in New Zealand a former poster named Blocky is tasting harder than a judge on master chef.
It's a privilege to see him play, to watch his career unfold and to know that somewhere in New Zealand a former poster named Blocky is tasting harder than a judge on master chef.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Tremendous job DoG ! Privileged to be part of this thread. Can't stress enough the herculean effort in this mammoth exercise.
Flem274*
123/5
well done dog. i hope you had fun doing them and they're definitely interesting rankings. i find some parts of the rankings and the philosophies driving them challenging to my own (especially people playing too long and losing spots) but you have a clear and consistent logic so it's good to follow.