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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
h_hurricane said:
An XI to play Aussies during Bradman era.

Herbert Sutcliffe
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Dudley Nourse
Vijay Hazare
Dattu Phadkar
Les Ames
Maurice Taite
Hedley Verity
Harold Larwood
Bill Voce
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Cowie over Voce IMO.

And if you're counting Hutton then put Compton in there too.
 
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Burgey

Burgey

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kyear2 said:
Does it though?
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Yeah, because he plays back and late more than anyone else. It’s more of an old school technique than he gets credit for, because of his big trigger and post-shot movements. If you look at old footage of pre-helmet players, they played a lot later and more off the back foot than what’s common today. TPC is almost a reversion to that.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Burgey said:
Yeah, because he plays back and late more than anyone else. It’s more of an old school technique than he gets credit for, because of his big trigger and post-shot movements. If you look at old footage of pre-helmet players, they played a lot later and more off the back foot than what’s common today. TPC is almost a reversion to that.
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He does play late and off the back foot quite a bit, and watching him sometimes it looks like he comes down on the ball at literally the very last possible moment.

This may not be a popular sentiment, but he reminds me of IVA where as his eye and reflexes go, so will his average. I'm sure not as precipatously , because Viv never learned to temper his aggression, but a decline at some point.

Just my opinion.
 
ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
All-time Windies XI ('tis a bit mad as a precaution):

GA Headley
FMM Worrell* (6)
GS Sobers (5)
BC Lara
ED Weekes
IVA Richards
CL Walcott +
MD Marshall (1)
MA Holding (4)
J Garner (3)
CEL Ambrose (2)
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Technically Worrell did open and Headley in effect almost did. But will leave Headley at 3 and open with Greenidge and Worrell. Walcott was also much more adept and experienced keeping to spin than pace so would go with Dujon there.
 
Victor Ian

Victor Ian

International Coach
ankitj said:
Yet Bradman rated Bedser highly enough to give him a place in all time world XI. Kind of puzzling.
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I know when i played it was less often the bowler who i rated best who got me out. He got my respect and therefore my best defence. Bradman might have been like me, in that regard.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Burgey said:
Yeah, because he plays back and late more than anyone else. It’s more of an old school technique than he gets credit for, because of his big trigger and post-shot movements. If you look at old footage of pre-helmet players, they played a lot later and more off the back foot than what’s common today. TPC is almost a reversion to that.
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But he also plays back to fullish or at least good length balls and only he can pull it off with his amazing eye and very early judgement of the length and extremely fast hands. I mean, you can be a very good test match batsman even with one of those attributes. :laugh:
 
ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
kyear2 said:
Technically Worrell did open and Headley in effect almost did. But will leave Headley at 3 and open with Greenidge and Worrell. Walcott was also much more adept and experienced keeping to spin than pace so would go with Dujon there.
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I'd probably take Walcott at home and Dujon away. Yeah on reflection I'd still have Greenidge opening, probs with Headley. Just kind of wanted to make a funky side.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Yeah but they used to play back to fuller balls. Was a far more common default movement back then
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
h_hurricane said:
Bedser averaged only 46 with the ball against Aus until Bradman retired (with no five wicket haul).
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Victor Ian said:
I know when i played it was less often the bowler who i rated best who got me out. He got my respect and therefore my best defence. Bradman might have been like me, in that regard.
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Managed to get Bradman out 6 times in 10 tests though. If I’m building an XI for that era I’d worry about getting Bradman out first, everything else later.
 
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h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
ankitj said:
Looks like Bedser dismissed Bradman 5 times in a row. "Only" one of them was a 100+ score, another 2 were 50+.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
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Again, this does not take into consideration Bradman's scores when Bedser didn't dismiss him. For instance, in the first test of 1946-47, Bradman scored 187, Bedser conceded 150+ and did not dismiss him. Likewise, in the second test Bradman scored 234, Bedser again conceded 150+ and did not dismiss him. It is fair to say, Don had a lot of success against him though Bedser's average would have been a lot better if not for him.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
h_hurricane said:
Again, this does not take into consideration Bradman's scores when Bedser didn't dismiss him. For instance, in the first test of 1946-47, Bradman scored 187, Bedser conceded 150+ and did not dismiss him. Likewise, in the second test Bradman scored 234, Bedser again conceded 150+ and did not dismiss him. It is fair to say, Don had a lot of success against him though Bedser's average would have been a lot better if not for him.
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I did not filter only for games where Bedser dismissed Bradman. It's all games involving both of them. Nor did I quote the faulty "average against Bedser". Yes, Bradman had lot of success against Bedser in general (well, duh!). It does show that probably those 5 dismissals in a row and one other dismissal on a duck played on Bradman's mind when he picked Bedser in all time XI.
 
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