The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[morgieb]

Yep, 2nd opener and 3rd pacer were a bit tough. Went with this from the available options

Cook
Strauss
Bell
Root
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior
Ali
Broad
Finn
Anderson

This but with Swann instead of Moeen.

No Woakes for the 3rd seamer option?

 

[honestbharani]

I'm not sure who you're referring to?

Most of the batsmen who have higher averages than Symonds on that list had a career more recently than Symonds and still struck slower than him. The ones who didn't are the three listed before.

Unless you're arguing that all the specialist number 4s on this list who struck in the 80s in the last 10 years are better than a guy who did it a decade earlier at a strike rate in the 90s?

Because a lot of them were good enough to bat 4 in their line ups. Symonds was not. I am just arguing that Symonds ain't good enough for an AT ODI XI. Its really simple. There are better batsmen and better strikers and better allrounders and better bowlers.

 

[Burgey]

Cricket.com has named a team of the decade.
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/fea...arner-de-villiers-steyn-statistics/2019-12-23

Cook
Warner
Williamson
Smith
Kohli (c)
De Villiers (+)
Stokes
Steyn
Broad
Lyon
Anderson

Gee it’s an underwhelming side overall. The fact they have de Villiers keeping when he mostly didn’t do it says a fair bit.

Two decent but certainly not in the frame for great openers, 3-5 are excellent (great to see Root miss out, he’s been pony for the last few years), while Broad, Anderson and Lyon are all kinda meh as “team of” selections imo. Oddly, Lyon is the least conditions dependent of the three of them.

Steyn of course is an ATG bowler, while as we all know Stokes is lucky he isn’t reading the list from a cell in Pentonville Road Prison tbh

 

[Prince EWS]

Definitely needs more bowlers who Siddle was better than.

 

[honestbharani]

Lack of Shami in selecting such a side is appalling.

 

[Burgey]

Not really. Flash in the pan for a small part of the decade but it’s been the back part so fair enough. Not even the best quick from his country

 

[honestbharani]

My bad. I read it as team of the year. Sorry. Was wondering why there was no Cummins or Shami.

 

[honestbharani]

My team of the decade:


Cook
Amla
KW
Virat (c)
Steve Smith
AB (wk)
Stokes
Ashwin
Steyn
Anderson
Boult


Would have liked more left handers but that side is good enough to play most other decades' XI I feel.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Because a lot of them were good enough to bat 4 in their line ups. Symonds was not. I am just arguing that Symonds ain't good enough for an AT ODI XI. Its really simple. There are better batsmen and better strikers and better allrounders and better bowlers.

He definitely was. Bloke averaged 50 overseas at about 100 strike rate. Even ignoring his fielding and bowling (which you wouldn't) he's a fair enough choice. You don't have to pick him, but it's not like other options are a class above, as you suggest.

 

[honestbharani]

To bat at 4, yes. And Symonds overall average gives you the right perspective of his level as an ODI player. Like I said, he is a class below the ATGs of ODI cricket.

His value is as an allrounder more than just a middle order batsman. And there have been better all-rounders. It really is that simple.

 

[Daemon]

It's a bit like stephen's argument against Rohit in the ATG XI imo. Symonds wouldn't add as much to a strong side as he would to a weaker one. There are better 5th bowling + lower order batting options out there.

He'd easily make the best rig xi though

 

[honestbharani]

I did say I agree with the reasoning he gave on Rohit.


Again, just better options out there than Gilly to open with Sachin though.

 

[stephen]

I'm kinda leaning to him having to bat 6 in an ATG side if he is to play.

Honestly Symonds would be better in Asia where a finger spinning option becomes very useful. Which is why he usually only features in my Asia XI. I prefer Klusener in fast bowler friendly conditions.

 

[honestbharani]

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com


You have all these options and you are going for Symonds?


There is no point in playing someone out of position in an ATG ODI XI. I think you have decided you want Symonds there and then you are trying to move your team around to fit him in. As I said, he is not an ATG ODI player for me and there are much better options to play for an ATG XI than him in every perspective.

And Symonds offies usually sucked. His medium pace was better I think. And Sachin and Viv are more than viable finger spinning options anyways who are already in the side.

 

[stephen]

If Buttler could keep anywhere near as well he'd replace Dhoni in the middle order in an ATG side. Mostly because of strike rate.

 

[honestbharani]

Of course, but that is neither here nor there for our discussion.

 

[Daemon]

Could have the butt jostler in as a specialist batsman too. He's that good.

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Kohli
Viv
AB
Buttler
AR
4 bowlers

 

[honestbharani]

If Symonds can bat 7 in an ATG ODI side, Buttler can open.

 

[h_hurricane]

I am a strong advocate for having all rounders in an ATG test XI but not so much in an ATG ODI XI. Part time spinners should not even be in discussion. In a 50 overs game, your top 6 is good to enough to bat through the overs 90% of the time, the odd batting collapses apart. You would need your no.7 to be a bowling allrounder. Those 10 overs could be make or break between winning and losing.

Symonds' part time spin would be a recipe for disaster if you are relying on him to bowl anything more than 2-3 overs in an ATG setup.

If you want him to bat higher up, is he good enough to replace Devilliers, Dhoni, Bevan or Butler for no. 5 or 6 ? Hard to believe.

 

[honestbharani]

He really has not batted all that much at #6 either, it seems. Or at least if he did, he did not average all that high. Check it out. Average of 29 after 66 matches, 40 innings and a SR of 97. Just not good enough for an ATG side.