DoG's Top 100 Test Batsmen Countdown Thread

[Logan]

I think there are 5 more English batsmen who will appear in this list. And none of them have played a single match in the last 50 years.

In DoG’s bowling list, Anderson(number 18) was the only bowler in the Top 30 who played in the last 50 years.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Something I will be interested to see, when Headley and Hammond come up, how their ranking would look if they had never come back after WWII.

To compensate, they'll get some career points for those years which I don't think they deserve tbh, since they weren't playing for most of that period.

 

[kyear2]

Two cricketerers from two different eras.

Gavaskar was truly the first world class batsman to emerge from India. Played for a weak team. Played in a tougher era. Played the greatest fast bowlers of all time. Gave belief to an entire nation for the first time they were as good as the rest.

IMO, Gavaskar > Hutton.

So I guess that most people rate Hutton higher is also further evidence of Western bias.

For me Hutton had to become more than any other batsman, certainly more than any other ATG batsman. And accomplished more than most as well. Breaking Bradman's record with the great man at cover and O'Reilly coming for him, the war, the injury, his post war brilliance vs all comers, pace and spin. Best to have opened imho.

With regards to Barry, they both played some in the same era, and all who saw them said Barry was the best.

 

[harsh.ag]

So I guess that most people rate Hutton higher is also further evidence of Western bias.

For me Hutton had to become more than any other batsman, certainly more than any other ATG batsman. And accomplished more than most as well. Breaking Bradman's record with the great man at cover and O'Reilly coming for him, the war, the injury, his post war brilliance vs all comers, pace and spin. Best to have opened imho.

With regards to Barry, they both played some in the same era, and all who saw them said Barry was the best.

I mean this is obviously false

 

[OverratedSanity]

Imo, ranking a guy who played 2 tests above someone who played 100+ tests and averaged 50 is flat out insulting. And I just made a big post about how contemporary/historical opinion is valuable. But no, things like this are just completely ridiculous.

 

[kyear2]

They were more than a few persons from that era who saw Barry and rated him among the best ever.

He can't be seen as greater, but he was seen as better.

 

[ataraxia]

Imo, ranking a guy who played 2 tests above someone who played 100+ tests and averaged 50 is flat out insulting. And I just made a big post about how contemporary/historical opinion is valuable. But no, things like this are just completely ridiculous.

*cue Aussies to say that Hussey is greater than Barry*

 

[mr_mister]

There's every chance Barry could have had a good but not great test career. Procter too.

 

[Slifer]

Yeah I'm in the camp who say that no way Barry Barry Richard's should be ranked higher than Sunil Gavaskar. That's laughable. Guy played all of 4 tests and yeah he did the deed in WSC but even those were a very limited number of games. Gavaskar played in one of the toughest periods to be an opener and came out second to none. There's only been two openers since Hutton retired to average over 50. Obviously, Hayden is not in Gavaskar's class and sorry Richard just cannot be ranked above or close to the great little man....

 

[Days of Grace]

No.32

Mohammad Yousuf (Pakistan) 790

Quality Points: 731
Career Points: 59

Career/Runs: 1998-2010, 7530 (rank 47)

Overall average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 49.10 (52.29) 45.32 (48.27) 47.56 (52.39) (rank 22)
50 Innings Peak Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate (2003-2006): 64.21 59.07 52.18 (rank 23)
Non-Home Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 44.45 41.46 47.95 (rank 60)
Quality Opposition Average/Runs per innings/Strike-rate: 42.21 40.29 50.03 (rank 85)

Mohammad Yousuf had an annus mirabilis in 2006, scoring 1788 runs at an average of 87.61 (adjusted down from 99.33). This was the tailend of his peak, which is the 23rd best of all batsmen. From that point onwards, he only played 17 more matches from 2007 to 2010, averaging 36.78 (36.39). This dropped him down from a spot just outside the top 20 to his final ranking of 32. Mohammad Yousuf is therefore a case in point that you can't judge a player's career fully until it's over.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

How many of those peak runs were Yousuf Youhana's?

 

[stephen]

Yeah I'm in the camp who say that no way Barry Barry Richard's should be ranked higher than Sunil Gavaskar. That's laughable. Guy played all of 4 tests and yeah he did the deed in WSC but even those were a very limited number of games. Gavaskar played in one of the toughest periods to be an opener and came out second to none. There's only been two openers since Hutton retired to average over 50. Obviously, Hayden is not in Gavaskar's class and sorry Richard just cannot be ranked above or close to the great little man....

Why is Hayden "obviously" not in Gavaskar's class. I mean Hayden probably wasn't as good as Gavaskar but he was ranked at 33 in this list and there's like 4 openers to come total.

Dismissing any player ranked in the top half dozen openers of all time as "not being in the same class" as the other guys is bollocks (unless that other player is Bradman).

Gavaskar was great and almost certainly better than Hayden but it's not like he had a faultless record.

But anyway, he's definitely better than Barry Richards, if only because he played and Richards didn't. Even if one counts the super tests, Richards played less than ten tests total.

 

[stephen]

How many of those peak runs were Yousuf Youhana's?

I'm pretty sure that MoYo only became a truly great batsman after his conversion to Islam. He personally credited it with giving him the discipline to really excel.

That was one golden year of batting. Incredible peak.

 

[stephen]

They were more than a few persons from that era who saw Barry and rated him among the best ever.

He can't be seen as greater, but he was seen as better.

Alexander the Great would have been the best leg spinner of all time if only the ancient Greeks were into cricket.

We can only ever rate people buy their accomplishments and not by their potential.

 

[Athlai]

Yousuf Youhana 97/98 - 05
4272 @ 47.46

MoYo 05/06 - 10
3258 @ 60.33

 

[Days of Grace]

#youhananotterrible

 

[harsh.ag]

Allah > Jesus obvsly

 

[Logan]

1. Ridiculous to compare Barry Richards to Sunil Gavaskar.

2. Hayden wasn’t in Gavaskar’s class. The best opener post-Gavaskar was Greame Smith and even he was not in Gavaskar’s league. Hayden was similar to Sehwag, good at home but mediocre in overseas conditions.

3. I would rate Gavaskar ahead of Hutton. Playing for a weaker team and playing against better bowlers is more tough.

 

[mr_mister]

Why is Hayden "obviously" not in Gavaskar's class. I mean Hayden probably wasn't as good as Gavaskar but he was ranked at 33 in this list and there's like 4 openers to come total.

Dismissing any player ranked in the top half dozen openers of all time as "not being in the same class" as the other guys is bollocks (unless that other player is Bradman).

Gavaskar was great and almost certainly better than Hayden but it's not like he had a faultless record.

But anyway, he's definitely better than Barry Richards, if only because he played and Richards didn't. Even if one counts the super tests, Richards played less than ten tests total.

Moderate upgrade perhaps?

 

[stephen]

1. Ridiculous to compare Barry Richards to Sunil Gavaskar.

2. Hayden wasn’t in Gavaskar’s class. The best opener post-Gavaskar was Greame Smith and even he was not in Gavaskar’s league. Hayden was similar to Sehwag, good at home but mediocre in overseas conditions.

3. I would rate Gavaskar ahead of Hutton. Playing for a weaker team and playing against better bowlers is more tough.

So you don't think that Hayden and Smith have been rated fairly by this exercise?

You often assert that things are so when they're at best debatable. I don't agree with the rating of every player on here but surely the fact that Hayden appears higher on this list means that there is at least some debate about whether he was better or worse than Smith.