The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[stephen]

Skill order of the top batsmen of the 90s/00s:

Tendulkar
Lara
Ponting
Waugh
Kallis
Sangakkara

Order of players I enjoyed watching:

Lara
Ponting
Sangakkara
Waugh
Tendulkar
Kallis

Tendulkar's textbook approach was quite boring to watch IMO compared to the flair of Lara, aggression of Ponting or the aesthetics of Sangakkara. Kallis' batting could have bored for his country, effective though it was.

Order of techniques I'd teach to the kids:

Tendulkar
Ponting (that back foot play)
Sangakkara
Kallis
Lara
Waugh

Personally I have a lot of time for Sangakkara. He was definitely underappreciated at the time. And his genuine humour and warmth that's come out in his commentary days make me appreciate him more.

Of course Ponting is the greatest commentator since Benaud.

 

[Logan]

The last couple pages have been ridiculous.

Len Hutton
Jack Hobbs
Donald Bradman
Steve Smith
Garry Sobers
Jacques Kallis
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Dale Steyn
Muttiah Muralitharan

What do you guys think?

Great Team. Almost identical to my ATG team. I would still chose Sachin instead of Smith. I will wait till Smith’s retirement before judging him.

A very solid middle order. Choosing both Sobers and Kallis is a good choice instead of the general consensus of Sobers+ Richards/Lara. You get a batsman just as good and bowler who has taken almost 300 wickets.

Personally, I would choose Gavasakar as one of the openers. He played for a weak team and was successful against everyone and in every country. If I have to choose, I would chose one pre-War and one post-War opener - Hobbs and Gavaskar. Just my personal opinion.

As great as Hobbs or Sutcliffe were, I am not sure how to judge them. They played at the game at it’s infancy. They played against one good opponent.

 

[Burgey]

Ah yes, look at the man who calls countries **** holes as an excuse for players not touring getting uppity about likes. Spare me the fake outrage, Burgey.

Then again, it's not a surprise given the hotel room antics of your hero.

It’s not an excuse. I think you have issues with perception, if not basic reading skills.

I regularly say I mark Chappell down for not touring as much as he could have, be it India or anywhere else. And sorry, but that was the attitude some players had to touring there back then. You might not like it and it may not be right, but that’s how they felt about it.

The fact I think places are or are not **** holes is immaterial to reasons given by players for not touring, isn’t it?

Would you prefer I lie and say I’m really interested in heading off somewhere when I’d rather have unanasthetized colorectal surgery than make the trip?

Seriously, why so angry? Wtf is wrong with you? I retract unreservedly my comment in the other thread where I hoped things get better for you at work in the lead up to the break.

 

[Logan]

We all agree that Sachin was probably the best of his generation but let's not pretend like he doesn't have holes as well. For example as bad as Lara stunk it up vs Donald and the 2 Ws, Sachin also averaged in the 30s overall vs said bowlers. Yes he made hundreds vs them but he was still an overall mediocre vs
said bowlers. Sachin unlike Lara played more than a handful of tests vs Zimbabwe/Bangladesh. I see people all the time bashing poor Murali for this but Murali isn't the only player who capitalized on playing these much weaker attacks. Sachin imo, also doesn't really have what I would call an atg great series vs an atg attack. Steve waugh has the odyssey in the wi in 95 and 99, lara has Australia 99, kallis imo had his vs wi in 98 when wi got white washed etc.

So yeah sachin was the most consistent but he has his holes as well and isn't inarguably the best of his generation (in tests).

The only thing against Sachin is his lack of a great series like what Lara had.

One can analyse a player how they performed against an opposition or how they played in a country.

But seeing how he averaged against a particular set of bowlers is taking it too far.

If we use the opposite logic, I am sure McGrath would have been more successful against some nobodies than Sachin and Lara or Ambrose average would be better against a medicore batsman than Sachin.

 

[vcs]

It’s not an excuse. I think you have issues with perception, if not basic reading skills.

I regularly say I mark Chappell down for not touring as much as he could have, be it India or anywhere else. And sorry, but that was the attitude some players had to touring there back then. You might not like it and it may not be right, but that’s how they felt about it.

The fact I think places are or are not **** holes is immaterial to reasons given by players for not touring, isn’t it?

Hence deathscar's post. You may not like it, but it's the brutal truth.

 

[Coronis]

The last couple pages have been ridiculous.

Len Hutton
Jack Hobbs
Donald Bradman
Steve Smith
Garry Sobers
Jacques Kallis
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Dale Steyn
Muttiah Muralitharan

What do you guys think?

Don’t think you need both Kallis and Sobers in unless you genuinely think Kallis is better as a batsman than the other middle order candidates.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah but vcs, what’s the excuse for your own pathetic effort?

Why go somewhere you think is a **** hole? There’s a reason I avoid places like Brisbane and Birmingham ffs. If you absolutely have to gp there for work, you do. That wasn’t the case for him back then. He could pick and choose. I make him down for it. For some reason this has led to you having sand in your crack.

 

[vcs]

Thought you were the one who started it off.

Complaining to the mods about likes FFS. Talk about thin skin.

 

[Burgey]

I haven’t complained to the mods. There’s no point because they’re as stupid as they are inconsistent

I’m not in the habit of reporting posts. And certainly not for things as lame as being put out because someone thinks my home town is a **** hole. If you can’t cop that you probably need to toss it in

 

[ataraxia]

Calm down people. Let's get off this matter and instead rate English spinners, because why not.

Verity
Laker
Underwood
Rhodes
Freeman

My top 5. Not sure how to rate the rest (Peate, Peel, Wardle, Illingworth, Swann, etc.). I include Rhodes above Underwood in my English 3rd XI because of his batting. Just throw names out there. Don't get into heated discussions about Verity vs. Laker. We all just need to calm down here.

 

[Burgey]

Not a bad list. Underwood was a menace in his day. Top bowler

 

[Coronis]

Calm down people. Let's get off this matter and instead rate English spinners, because why not.

Verity
Laker
Underwood
Rhodes
Freeman

My top 5. Not sure how to rate the rest (Peate, Peel, Wardle, Illingworth, Swann, etc.). I include Rhodes above Underwood in my English 3rd XI because of his batting. Just throw names out there. Don't get into heated discussions about Verity vs. Laker. We all just need to calm down here.

Laker has a better looking record but Verity got the Don out more than anyone. Tich seems hard done by not to have played more tests.

 

[h_hurricane]

Thought you were the one who started it off.

Complaining to the mods about likes FFS. Talk about thin skin.

To add to it, no Indian complained here when some one here made banworthy comments like "100 rabid indians". Mods here have been fair and considerate largely even for the extreme hypocrites regardless of what he says.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I haven’t complained to the mods.

Wait didn't you write a long email to the mods waahing about your recent ban and then the first thing you did after coming back was opening a thread having a spray at them. This sounds like the exact opposite of not complaining.

Who cares anyway this talk is lame, we should get back to more important matters like how Greg Chappell was overrated. Especially his overseas record. I was always under the impression he had a great record against Hadlee but it's not really true at all. In nz, he got literally half of his 800 or so runs there in one test which featured on paper one of the worst attacks NZ might have ever fielded. His one hundred against Hadlee is a tremendous knock though. Wish there was an extended video of it but the short highlights package on rob's channel is great. Some incredible pulls and hooks in there.

 

[honestbharani]

McGrath only bowled 8 overs and 4 balls per innings on average. 6 overs per match means a player is usually bowling around 8-10 and occasionally doesn't bowl due to rain or because the other bowlers ran through the opposition.

Saying that Symonds couldn't/ wouldn't bowl 10 overs regularly must come from not having watched him play much.

I believe I said he would not bowl 10 overs consistenly in his own playing days and will not be able to do that in an ATG XI. He has bowled 10 overs 31 times out of 198 games. I don't see how else that can be stated. Of course, TJB has no idea about cricket and is only ever able to make biased wrong posts on the topic, so not surprised by that but surely yourself and RH can easily understand I just made a factual observation. I don't see what is so offensive about calling someone who only ever bowled 10 overs about 16% of his career as someone who did not consistenty bowl 10 overs.. Lol. You guys take offence to any reality that does not support your biased assertions now?

 

[Slifer]

Laker has a better looking record but Verity got the Don out more than anyone. Tich seems hard done by not to have played more tests.

No room for Swann??

 

[Burgey]

I think that chappell knock is the one where he smacked a streaker on the arse with his bat.

 

[Burgey]

To add to it, no Indian complained here when some one here made banworthy comments like "100 rabid indians". Mods here have been fair and considerate largely even for the extreme hypocrites regardless of what he says.

How’s saying “100 rabid [anyone]” banworthy?

 

[ataraxia]

So now it's again descending into 100 rabid Indians vs 100 hypocritical Australians. Peak CW.

 

[Logan]

1. Jim Laker
2. Hedley Verity
3. Derek Underwood
4. Charlie Blythe
5. Greame Swann