The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[marc71178]

It's why Symonds is pretty much the perfect number 7 for an ATG side - he's hyper aggressive but able to build an innings after a collapse. He can also give you a full 10 overs and will likely save runs in the field and/ or create a chance.

Oh, not this **** again.

 

[stephen]

Oh, not this **** again.

You literally picked one side note of mine but ignored the four pages of dross posted by Sunilz and Logan.

Ok.

 

[sunilz]

You literally picked one side note of mine but ignored the four pages of dross posted by Sunilz and Logan.

Ok.

Symonds averages 28 at 6/7 position. You want him there in an ODI ATXI and accuse other of posting dros

 

[trundler]

You literally picked one side note of mine but ignored the four pages of dross posted by Sunilz and Logan.

Ok.

Nah, Logan's posting is perfectly fine. He may have 'deviant' opinions according to you but he's not obnoxious.

 

[h_hurricane]

Sunilz is famous for dropping truth bombs. Interesting to see how Stephen handles this one on Symonds' average at 6/7. Can't wait.

 

[stephen]

Doing a bit more digging into recent stats.

Since the start of 2011 (Rohit only started opening that year), opening batsmen from top 8 countries have averaged 39 at a strike rate of 87.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

That's extraordinary. And represents a huge inflation from the decade before where top 8 openers averaged 35 at 80:

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

But that level of inflation is nothing compared to that which occurred between the 90s and the 00s. In the 90s openers only averaged 33 at 68!

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

In the space of a couple of decades the average opener is scoring 6 more runs per wicket and scoring at a strike rate of 19 runs per hundred balls faster. That represents an inflation of 18% in averages and 28% in strike rates.

Inflating Tendulkar's 90s opening stats to today's figures gives him an average of 57.3 and a strike rate of 117.

Inflating Mark Waugh's 90s opening stats to today's figures gives him an average of 53.5 and a strike rate of 98.6.

Anwar is 49.6 @ 106.

Ganguly inflates to 51.5 @ 91.6.

Jayasuriya inflates to 38.7 @ 120.

Gilchrist inflates to 41.5 @ 115 (though this is only over a relatively short period of time).

In this context I find Rohit's stats as opener to be a whole lot less compelling than they are on the surface. Adjusted for era he's basically a 10% upgrade on Ganguly, which is still great but not *that great*.

It also means I don't really rate the current crop of huge averaging openers to be all that great in the grand scheme of things.

 

[h_hurricane]

I absolutely don't see Mark Waugh striking at run a ball or Tendulkar striking at 120 in ODIs today. That is insane to think.

 

[Logan]

Assuming Dhoni or Bevan bat at number 6, the all rounder is going to bat at number 7.

All Rounders who have scored more than 1000 runs in number 7 are :

Name : Avg/SR

Afridi : 23/131

Jadeja : 28/82

Kapil : 24/87

Razzaq : 32/90

Harris : 31/60

Among these names, it basically comes to Afridi or Kapil. I will go with Kapil Dev. Big Hitter, Better Bowler and Great Fielder.

 

[sunilz]

So, Tendulkar has a better SR rate than Gilchrist in adjusted average and SR . So thanks for proving my point again. Tendulkar would be the attacker and Rohit consolidator. There is no need of Gilchrist who averages 16 less than Rohit even after adjustments.

 

[Logan]

At number 7 position

Symonds
Matches : 20
Average : 21
SR : 91

Kapil
Matches : 75
Average : 24
SR : 87



Andrew Symonds spent the majority of his career batting at number 5 position. I don’t see any captain making Symonds bat ahead of ABD or Dhoni/Bevan.

 

[Logan]

So, Tendulkar has a better SR rate than Gilchrist in adjusted average and SR . So thanks for proving my point again. Tendulkar would be the attacker and Rohit consolidator. There is no need of Gilchrist who averages 16 less than Rohit even after adjustments.

I don’t see the need for Gilchrist even after these “adjustments”.

Sachin’s adjusted average is 57 and adjusted SR is 117.

If I want an attacking batsman to pair up with Sachin, I can chose Jayasuriya who has also taken over 300 ODI wickets.

If I want someone who can accumulate runs and compliment Sachin, I can chose Rohit who averages 57 and has a SR of 92 as an opener.

 

[ankitj]

There were a few players in Tendulkar's playing days who had similar or better SR than him. Are there any who have SR of 117?

 

[vcs]

I would have been college topper with appropriate era adjustment multipliers.

Damn it, born in the wrong era.

 

[Logan]

Minimum Criteria of 100 ODIs

Butler with a SR of 119 and Maxwell with a SR of 123.

 

[sunilz]

There were a few players in Tendulkar's playing days who had similar or better SR than him. Are there any who have SR of 117?

Are you really taking those adjusted average seriously . Do you really believe Tendulkar would strike @ 117 while averaging 57 in modern era ?

 

[Logan]

Just curious what is Bevan’s “adjusted” SR?

 

[Logan]

Are you really taking those adjusted average seriously . Do you really believe Tendulkar would strike @ 117 while averaging 57 in modern era ?

I don’t think anyone does

 

[Spark]

If you absolutely muuuuust do that kind of average era adjustment then you should do it properly and formulate it in terms of above-replacement level, i.e. how much better a certain player was than a generic "median" standard international of the same type in the same era. Not just percentage comparisons.

 

[Logan]

The only batsman that I consider an ATG with a SR>100 is ABD.

 

[Logan]

If you absolutely muuuuust do that kind of average era adjustment then you should do it properly and formulate it in terms of above-replacement level, i.e. how much better a certain player was than a generic "median" standard international of the same type in the same era. Not just percentage comparisons.

I am sure it will be Viv Richards. While some of his peers had a similar average, his SR was unreal for those times.