The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[sunilz]

You know what, let's include Tim Seifert solely because he is better than his average according to your logic. Brilliant misrepresentation.

Yes, Sehwag as an ODI batsman is comparable to Tim Seifert . Why don't you restrict yourself to picking Bradman, Sobers and WG Grace in an ODI ATXI.

 

[ataraxia]

Yes, Gilchrist as an ODI batsman is comparable to Virender Sehwag.

 

[sunilz]

Yes, Gilchrist as an ODI batsman is comparable to Virender Sehwag.

Gilchrist and Sehwag both average around 35 . They are not comparable .
But Gilchrist is comparable to Rohit having batting average 48 .

 

[CricAddict]

Sehwag was also a much better ODI batsman than his average . So, let Sehwag and Tendulkar open in ATXI and Dhoni be the wkt according to your logic.

Yeah, do it in your XI Sunilz. I don't think any one will disagree. I like Gilchrist and Jayasuriya both more than Sehwag and so, will have my XI with either of them opening. They can all do well on their day or fail quickly.

 

[sunilz]

Yeah, do it in your XI Sunilz. I don't think any one will disagree. I like Gilchrist and Jayasuriya both more than Sehwag and so, will have my XI with either of them opening. They can all do well on their day or fail quickly.

I am not going to pick a batsman of ODI avergae 35 when a batsman of ODI average 48 is already available . Rohit + Tendulkar will do for me and Dhoni will be the wkt . I am ready to exclude Dhoni if Devilliers is allowed to do the wicket keeping job and include Klusener or Symonds .

 

[CricAddict]

I am not going to pick a batsman of ODI avergae 35 when a batsman of ODI average 48 is already available . Rohit + Tendulkar will do for me and Dhoni will be the wkt . I am ready to exclude Dhoni if Devilliers is allowed to do the wicket keeping job and include Klusener or Symonds .

While numbers are important, we can't go by just numbers in many cases. We have to look at the era they played in as well as the role they played. Just because Rohit averaged more than Tendulkar doesn't mean he is a better batsman than Tendulkar.

 

[sunilz]

While numbers are important, we can't go by just numbers in many cases. We have to look at the era they played in as well as the role they played. Just because Rohit averaged more than Tendulkar doesn't mean he is a better batsman than Tendulkar.

If Rohit carries on like this for another 4 years and has another excellent WC in 2023 then I am ready to consider him better than Tendulkar .
Rohit as ODI opener : 57.5 , Gilchrist as ODI opener : 36.5 . It's not even close
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[akilana]

So how exactly is 20232 a bigger number than 21599?

When you consider 166 games against 93 it's obvious who had the heavier workload.

Close number of balls but that’s not exactly the point.

When a player play fewer number of tests, he can run in all day and bowl and then rest for a longer period of time.

Say if Kallis was skipping tests and only played 93 tests, he could have bowled more. The fact is Kallis bowled fewer overs per tests but he played more tests which means he was still bowling more often. They take a toll on the body.

Kallis also played tons of ODIs to go with the 166 tests.

 

[akilana]

Being a free scoring attacking batsman is highly desirable and beneficial, and makes you a better cricketer.

Obdurate defensive batting is fine and has its place, but a guy like Sobers who can score big and freely and quickly is a massive advantage in terms of winning tests. In my eyes it places Sobers above Kallis by a significant margin when everything else is seemingly equal.

That’s exactly why I rate Steyn, Donald and Marshall ahead of McGrath and his line and length by a significant margin.

 

[Logan]

Sachin

Rohit

Richards

Kohli

ABD

Dhoni

Kapil

This is my ATG ODI top order

 

[Logan]

That’s exactly why I rate Steyn, Donald and Marshall ahead of McGrath and his line and length by a significant margin.

Dale Steyn is the greatest wicket taking bowler of all time. A strike rate of 42 after playing 93 Tests is unreal.


Insane Stat : Dale Steyn took 16,634 balls to reach 400 Test wickets - the fewest in history.

Every other bowler(Walsh, Ambrose, Muralitharan, McGrath, Hadlee, Akram, Warne, Anderson, Hadlee) took more than 20000+ balls to take 400 Test wickets.

 

[stephen]

If Rohit carries on like this for another 4 years and has another excellent WC in 2023 then I am ready to consider him better than Tendulkar .
Rohit as ODI opener : 57.5 , Gilchrist as ODI opener : 36.5 . It's not even close
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

But then you have to pick Dhoni as keeper and you don't have a choice.

Gilchrist averaged 11% higher than the average opener during his career and struck 30% faster than the average opener during that time.

Rohit averages 40% higher than the average opener during his career and strikes 7% faster than the average opener during that time.

Rohit is also known for making big, average- inflating hundreds and isn't as consistent as other batsmen, which IMO deflates the true value of his average (cf Bevan who did the opposite - was consistent with a lot of starts but very few large scores).

So Gilchrist and Rohit fulfill different opening roles. Gilchrist is going to be far more aggressive but only average a little better than the norm while Rohit is going to average more but not go much faster than the norm.

On batting alone in an AT team you probably want the former since you have Tendulkar, Viv, Kohli and de Villiers sitting in the sheds. So Gilchrist is probably going to fit into that side much better.

And you don't have to play Dhoni and can play the superior batsman in Bevan.

 

[sunilz]

In a team of Tendulkar, Kohli , Richards and Devilliers there is no need of consolidator like Bevan . Bevan wasn't capable of hitting out like Dhoni . In 9 out of 10 games , top 5 of Rohit, Sachin,Kohli , Richards and Devilliers will last till atleast 45 overs. And you don't want Bevan in last 5 overs.

 

[Logan]

As openers:

Rohit
Matches : 132
Runs : 6719
Average : 57
SR : 92
Centuries : 25

Gilchrist
Matches : 259
Runs : 9200
Average : 36
SR : 98
Centuries : 16

Sehwag
Matches : 212
Runs : 7518
Average : 36
SR : 104
Centuries : 14



Rohit would be my first choice to partner with Sachin in my ATG ODI eleven.

 

[stephen]

In a team of Tendulkar, Kohli , Richards and Devilliers there is no need of consolidator like Bevan . Bevan wasn't capable of hitting out like Dhoni . In 9 out of 10 games , top 5 of Rohit, Sachin,Kohli , Richards and Devilliers will last till atleast 45 overs. And you don't want Bevan in last 5 overs.

Then you pick Symonds and Klusener to fill out your 6 and 7. Because the role that Dhoni was good at was done better by Bevan. If you want hitters, those two will be your best options.

 

[Logan]

In a team of Tendulkar, Kohli , Richards and Devilliers there is no need of consolidator like Bevan . Bevan wasn't capable of hitting out like Dhoni . In 9 out of 10 games , top 5 of Rohit, Sachin,Kohli , Richards and Devilliers will last till atleast 45 overs. And you don't want Bevan in last 5 overs.

Having Dhoni as the wicket-Keeper is a logical choice. Dhoni was just as good as Bevan as a finisher and could go to attack mode if necessary. That would also allow a pure batsman as an opener and Rohit with an average of 57 would fill that spot.

 

[stephen]

As openers:

Rohit
Matches : 132
Runs : 6719
Average : 57
SR : 92
Centuries : 25

Gilchrist
Matches : 259
Runs : 9200
Average : 36
SR : 98
Centuries : 16

Sehwag
Matches : 212
Runs : 7518
Average : 36
SR : 104
Centuries : 14



Rohit would be my first choice to partner with Sachin in my ATG ODI eleven.

But why? He has a good average but his strike rate is nothing special for his era and he's not even indisputably the best going around at the moment.

 

[Logan]

Then you pick Symonds and Klusener to fill out your 6 and 7. Because the role that Dhoni was good at was done better by Bevan. If you want hitters, those two will be your best options.

Kapil Dev would be a good batsman. Insane SR of 95 in an era when even Viv had a SR of 92. Kapil or Klusener would be the tough fight.

 

[sunilz]

Then you pick Symonds and Klusener to fill out your 6 and 7. Because the role that Dhoni was good at was done better by Bevan. If you want hitters, those two will be your best options.

This is exactly what i had suggested earlier . Rohit to open , Devilliers to keep and Symonds/ Klusener at 6 . There is no need of Gilchrist . All of Tendulkar, Kohli, Richards and Devilliers are better striker than Gilchrist .

 

[Logan]

But why? He has a good average but his strike rate is nothing special for his era and he's not even indisputably the best going around at the moment.

A 92 SR is sufficient when he has an average of 57. Plus he hits a century every 6 innings. Not to mention three double centuries.