The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[kyear2]

Mine and this is after much deliberation:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman
Sachin
Viv
Sobers 5
Gilchrist +
Imran* 3
Hadlee 2
Marshall 1
Warne 4

I respectfully disagree, not sure how you can make an ATG XI and leave out arguably 2 of the 3 best fast bowlers of all time so that you can bat deep. Their primary job is to bowl out the opposition for as low as possible, for that you get as close to the very best attack that you can.
As of now mine consists of

Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
Steyn

 

[kyear2]

As a batsman I don’t rate Kallis above any of the other players you mentioned and his bowling really shouldn’t be a selection factor with 6 better bowlers ahead of him imo.

While I agree that as a batsman alone he is just a touch below the likes of Sachin, IVA, Lara, Smith etc. His (or Lara's, Hammond's or Smith's) slip fielding in this team would be desperately needed and as a support bowler he may be more effective that the other all rounders on the team.

Kallis may not be the 1st choice but he is worthy of consideration.

 

[Coronis]

While I agree that as a batsman alone he is just a touch below the likes of Sachin, IVA, Lara, Smith etc. His (or Lara's, Hammond's or Smith's) slip fielding in this team would be desperately needed and as a support bowler he may be more effective that the other all rounders on the team.

Kallis may not be the 1st choice but he is worthy of consideration.

I made that comment in response to the statement he was selected purely on batting.

 

[Red]

Any team that doesn't select Marshall as its first choice quick is wrong, imo

 

[OverratedSanity]

Would certainly rank him behind Sobers and Grace. Unlike Kallis, both were frontline bowlers for their teams and the Dr. was indeed one of the very best bowlers in the country for many years, and Sobers, whilst bowling a ton of overs had amazing variety as well.

Sobers handled a heavier bowling workload than the likes of Imran

 

[Coronis]

Any team that doesn't select Marshall as its first choice quick is wrong, imo

I’ve been reading some of the very first pages in this thread recently, its remarkable how definite and resistant to different ideas people seem these days.

 

[mr_mister]

Any team that doesn't select Marshall as its first choice quick is wrong, imo

He's not the Bradman of bowling like some people think he is

There's like 5 pacemen with an argument for best ever

 

[Logan]

Malcolm Marshall isn’t the equivalent of Don Bradman. He is the equivalent of Sachin Tendulkar. Marshall performed against everyone and everywhere. Arguably the greatest bowler of all time.

 

[Bolo.]

Would certainly rank him behind Sobers and Grace. Unlike Kallis, both were frontline bowlers for their teams and the Dr. was indeed one of the very best bowlers in the country for many years, and Sobers, whilst bowling a ton of overs had amazing variety as well.

The fact that Kallis didnt play as a frontline bowler is a big part of what makes him a better bowler when you have so many options. Bowlers 5-7 will get, at most, a handful of overs each at the worst of times. Bowling only at tough times was kallis's speciality, and a huge part of why his stats arent that great.

Kallis was as close to being his country's leading bowler as WG was (if not closer). 150km swing bowling is greater than roundarm if we need a tiebreaker.

Sober's variety is good, but its only going to be effective at this level when conditions are favourable, in which case he is hardly getting a bowl anyway.

 

[stephen]

Lol Kallis was never a 150 kph bowler. He was a 130kph swing merchant.

 

[Bolo.]

You are describing one of about four phases in
his career- when he said he would be bowling within himself. Even near the end he hit almost 150 once or twice. He was consistently mid 140s plus for most of his career.

 

[Logan]

Between 1995-2009, Australia team held the number one ranking for 155 weeks out of a possible 163 weeks (95%)

Between 1981-1995, West Indies team held the number one ranking for 163 weeks out of a possible 174 weeks (93%)

The two greatest Test teams ever

 

[aussie tragic]

I respectfully disagree, not sure how you can make an ATG XI and leave out arguably 2 of the 3 best fast bowlers of all time so that you can bat deep. Their primary job is to bowl out the opposition for as low as possible, for that you get as close to the very best attack that you can.
As of now mine consists of

Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
Steyn

After all that chat you only changed Imran for Steyn lol

 

[kyear2]

He's not the Bradman of bowling like some people think he is

There's like 5 pacemen with an argument for best ever

Marshall, McGrath, Steyn and possibly Hadlee and Ambrose. But the the "absolute best" argument I personally think it comes down to the top 3 with McGrath and Marshall just slightly ahead with, again just my personal opinion Marshall edging out McGrath.

He just had everything and performed well everywhere vs everyone. He knew how to adapt to every condition. As an old anecdote goes, he had all the toys and knew when and where to use them.

 

[kyear2]

I’ve been reading some of the very first pages in this thread recently, its remarkable how definite and resistant to different ideas people seem these days.

In your opinion who was the greatest?

 

[kyear2]

After all that chat you only changed Imran for Steyn lol

I would have explained that of late quite a bit. I agree with the need to have a no. 8 who can bat once the drop off from a bowling perspective is minimal. McGrath and Hadlee were similar in many perspectives and I have him ranked either as the 4th of 5th best Pacer of all time and a hair below the top 3. So there the swap is justifiable for McGrath and I still get 2 of my top 3 pacers in the line up.

 

[Logan]

Marshall was the most complete bowler of all time. The best average of all time.

Steyn is the greatest wicket taker of all time. The best SR of all time.

Glen McGrath and Richard Hadlee are almost equal.

They are the top four bowlers ever.

 

[Coronis]

In your opinion who was the greatest?

I find it difficult to clearly rate any one bowler as a clear number one. Not to say Marshall isn’t up there, but saying any XI without him is wrong comes across as quite rude. Outside of the wide anomaly that is Bradman, I doubt you will get any group of cricket fans, players, journalists etc. to agree on a greatest bowler/greatest wicketkeeper/second greatest batsman (hell some people still make arguments against Bradman).

 

[Coronis]

Marshall was the most complete bowler of all time. The best average of all time.

Steyn is the greatest wicket taker of all time. The best SR of all time.

Glen McGrath and Richard Hadlee are almost equal.

They are the top four bowlers ever.

Unsure where you get your stats from tbh.

 

[Logan]

Using 50 Tests as a minimum criteria, Marshall has the best bowling average while Steyn has the best bowling SR.