The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[stephen]

Where do you guys think the current crop of NZ batsmen rate against their all time counterparts?

Very highly.

My ATG NZ side:

Turner
Fleming*
Williamson
Crowe
Taylor
Nicholls
McCullum+
Vettori
Hadlee
Boult
Bond

Edit: was toying with Latham in the middle order as the keeper- bat but decided McCullum can do that and Nicholls can bat middle order instead.

 

[Logan]

Kane Williamson is arguably the best NewZealand batsman ever

 

[stephen]

Kane Williamson is arguably the best NewZealand batsman ever

It's basically between him and Crowe.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Very highly.

My ATG NZ side:

Turner
Fleming*
Williamson
Crowe
Taylor
Nicholls
McCullum+
Vettori
Hadlee
Boult
Bond

Edit: was toying with Latham in the middle order as the keeper- bat but decided McCullum can do that and Nicholls can bat middle order instead.

mccullum at 6 and cairns in at 7 instead of nicholls to give the side more balance.

 

[Red]

England team of 1945-69

Len Hutton
Colin Cowdrey
Peter May (c)
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Ted Dexter
Godfrey Evans (wk)
Johnny Wardle
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Alec Bedser

An Indian XI in the same time period

Mankad
Borde
Manjrekar
Hazare
Umrigar
Pataudi
Engineer
Phadkar
Nadkarni
Desai
Gupte

Haven't considered Merchant(only 4 tests during this period) and the spin trio(who were mostly 70s players).

Australia 1945-2019

Arthur Morris
Bob Simpson
Ricky Ponting
Steve Smith
Keith Miller *
Neil Harvey
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Alan Davidson
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

Lindwall, Border, Benaud - depending on conditions

 

[Coronis]

Australia 1945-2019

Arthur Morris
Bob Simpson
Ricky Ponting
Steve Smith
Keith Miller *
Neil Harvey
Adam Gilchrist +
Shane Warne
Alan Davidson
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

Lindwall, Border, Benaud - depending on conditions

Dunno why you’d put Miller in at 5 ahead of Harvey. Personally I don’t think theres room in this particular side for Miller. The main reason you can get away with having him in the top 6 is due to the presence of Bradman, which this team lacks. Otherwise it weakens the batting too much imo. Border is probably the best fit to come in, being a useful 5th bowler. (My XI for the same period)

Hayden
Simpson
Ponting
Smith
Chappell
Border*
Gilchrist+
Davidson
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

 

[mr_mister]

Bradmans averaging 105 or so from 15 tests from 1945 onwards arguably enough to scrape a top 6 spot still

 

[Coronis]

Bradmans averaging 105 or so from 15 tests from 1945 onwards arguably enough to scrape a top 6 spot still

True. Ill change mine to 1949-2019 then.

 

[a massive zebra]

England team 1919-39

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe (c)
Walter Hammond
Patsy Hendren
Phil Mead
Maurice Leyland
Leslie Ames (wk)
Maurice Tate
Harold Larwood
Hedley Verity
Bill Bowes

 

[Flem274*]

Very highly.

My ATG NZ side:

Turner
Fleming*
Williamson
Crowe
Taylor
Nicholls
McCullum+
Vettori
Hadlee
Boult
Bond

Edit: was toying with Latham in the middle order as the keeper- bat but decided McCullum can do that and Nicholls can bat middle order instead.

turner
sutcliffe
kane
crowe
ross
j.r. reid
watling
hadlee
bruce taylor
bond
cowie

for me. fleming was a dubious opener and sutcliffe was pretty good, 3-5 pick themselves. decided to go with the allrounder and wanted reids offies to offset what i was going to do with the bowling. mccullum just holds off watling given i separate mccullum the keeper bat from mccullum the specialist bat (it's cheating to have skipper mcsmash baz and 2007 gloveman baz all in one given it never happened in reality) and then 4 quicks given i think vettori is a waste of a spin bowling spot unless we use very early career dan.

edit - yeah putting my guy watling in there. he's not baz with the gloves but is very reliable and has played so many more great innings than keeper baz did.

also keeps to spinners who turn the ball and take wickets too.

 

[Flem274*]

Where do you guys think the current crop of NZ batsmen rate against their all time counterparts?

quick list from me

kane
crowe
turner
ross
captaincy mccullum
sutcliffe
fleming
wright
richardson
astle

tbh below fleming it gets pretty congested. im nicholls #1 fan and he's on the rise but isn't there yet. not sure how to rank the likes of dempster and donnelly. i've heard enough about cowie and seen some footage in the youtube thread to think he deserves his spot in the bowling trio of hadlee-bond-cowie but im less knowledgeable with the early era batsmen.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

England team 1919-39

Jack Hobbs
Herbert Sutcliffe (c)
Walter Hammond
Patsy Hendren
Phil Mead
Maurice Leyland
Leslie Ames (wk)
Maurice Tate
Harold Larwood
Hedley Verity
Bill Bowes

Voce instead of Bowes.

 

[bagapath]

1948 - 62 POST BRADMAN XI

HUTTON (C)
MORRIS
COMPTON
HARVEY
WEEKES
MILLER
EVANS (WK)
LINDWALL
BENAUD
TRUEMAN
LAKER

1963 - 1977 PRE PACKER XI

GAVASKAR
BOYCOTT
VIV RICHARDS
G POLLOCK
G CHAPPELL
SOBERS (C)
KNOTT (WK)
LILLEE
ROBERTS
BEDI
CHANDRA


1978 - 92 WINDIES ERA X1

GREENIDGE
GOOCH
MD CROWE
MIANDAD
BORDER
IMRAN (C)
DUJON (WK)
HADLEE
MARSHALL
HOLDING
GARNER


1993 - 2007 AUSSIE ERA XI

HAYDEN
SEHWAG
PONTING (C)
TENDULKAR
LARA
KALLIS
GILCHRIST (WK)
AMBROSE
WARNE
MURALI
McGRATH

2008 - 19 T20 ERA XI

G SMITH
COOK
WILLIAMSON
KOHLI
S SMITH
ABDV
DHONI (WK) (C)
ASHWIN
M JOHNSON
STEYN
RABADA

 

[bagapath]

Left over XI

Simpson
Langer
Dravid
Sangakara
Worrell (c)
Botham
Q de kock (wk)
Akram
Bedser
Underwood
Donald

 

[Tom Flint]

No spinner in windies era?
Why johnson for a couple good series? May as well have picked bumrah.
Left over xi still no Anderson? And why de kock?

 

[Coronis]

Left over XI

Simpson
Langer
Dravid
Sangakara
Worrell (c)
Botham
Q de kock (wk)
Akram
Bedser
Underwood
Donald

Walcott??

No spinner in windies era?
Why johnson for a couple good series? May as well have picked bumrah.
Left over xi still no Anderson? And why de kock?

No problem with no Anderson. The only one you could possibly argue with him is Bedser.

 

[ankitj]

You would take Andersen ahead of Bedsar now, won't you?

 

[Bolo]

1948 - 62 POST BRADMAN XI

HUTTON (C)
MORRIS
COMPTON
HARVEY
WEEKES
MILLER
EVANS (WK)
LINDWALL
BENAUD
TRUEMAN
LAKER

1963 - 1977 PRE PACKER XI

GAVASKAR
BOYCOTT
VIV RICHARDS
G POLLOCK
G CHAPPELL
SOBERS (C)
KNOTT (WK)
LILLEE
ROBERTS
BEDI
CHANDRA


1978 - 92 WINDIES ERA X1

GREENIDGE
GOOCH
MD CROWE
MIANDAD
BORDER
IMRAN (C)
DUJON (WK)
HADLEE
MARSHALL
HOLDING
GARNER


1993 - 2007 AUSSIE ERA XI

HAYDEN
SEHWAG
PONTING (C)
TENDULKAR
LARA
KALLIS
GILCHRIST (WK)
AMBROSE
WARNE
MURALI
McGRATH

2008 - 19 T20 ERA XI

G SMITH
COOK
WILLIAMSON
KOHLI
S SMITH
ABDV
DHONI (WK) (C)
ASHWIN
M JOHNSON
STEYN
RABADA

63-77 is a bit messy. Playing 2 spinners who were not top level + sobers doesn't make sense.

And Richards as well. There is another guy called Richards who scored nearly twice as many runs at about twice the average in this time period, and he also doesn't deserve a spot.

Drop Crowe and put Viv in the period he belongs.

2008- dhoni has no business in the team. AB a better (test) gloveman than him. Sanga (probably also a better test gloveman) in, so you have two options.

Johnson out. Philander or Anderson in.

G Smith was good, but doesn't deserve a spot for that time period. I can't think of a replacement though.

Edit: I do like the way you have shamelessly (and correctly) gone for 5 right arm quicks in the windies era

 

[Tom Flint]

Why do you need 5 atg quick. Just rotate the 4 and have another batsman or spinner

 

[Bolo]

Why do you need 5 atg quick. Just rotate the 4 and have another batsman or spinner

No spinners worth considering in that era. Hardly any bats either- Imran almost makes the team as a specialist bat in the time period being considered.

Could drop holding instead of crowe to bring viv in i guess. Border and viv to share 5th role. Probably atronger that way.