Top Five Cricketers from each country

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Look, I know there's highs and lows in his record(maybe his weakness against the WI can be countered by the fact that he had the GOAT series for an all-rounder in the '81 Ashes) but the numbers just don't lie.


237 wickets and 11 tons after 52 tests. If his career ended then and there he'd be an ATVG specialist batsman or bowler if you only look at his record in one discipline. When you consider he achieved it with both bat and ball though, well man I think it's hard to argue that he was anything but the perfect All-rounder at the halfway point of his career.


It's like having a Mark Waugh who bowled as good as Gillespie or something.

Sobers was Sobers with bat + Gillespie with ball for 8 years.

But yes , Botham for first 5 yrs and 50 tests was phenomenal and in the league of Sobers and Bradman.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Selling Dizzy waaaaaaaaay short there

 

[mr_mister]

Sobers was Sobers with bat + Gillespie with ball for 8 years.

But yes , Botham for first 5 yrs and 50 tests was phenomenal and in the league of Sobers and Bradman.

Six five fers for a whole career... I don't think he was ever as good a bowler as Gillespie.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

In an alternate universe

Procter
100 tests 425 wickets at 22
5000 runs at 34 , 10 X 100s

Rice
100 tests , 300 wickets at 25
6000 runs at 40 , 15 X 100s

 

[trundler]

I think there are 2 arguments for Sobers's bowling. Firstly, he played in a dreadfully slow era. Bedi, Gibbs, etc have low WPMs too. His strike rate sells him short. Secondly, he mixed up a lot of Chinamen and spin with his pace bowling which I've read dilutes his figures since I've read he became a better pacer with time. Not sure about the second argument. I just recall reading that in an article. Someone who's seen him to confirm.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Six five fers for a whole career... I don't think he was ever as good a bowler as Gillespie.

5 X 5 from 33 tests , better than Gillespie's 8 from 71

 

[mr_mister]

But he didn't have a lot of stiff competition for wickets for a good chunk of his career, Wes Hall for a bit then Gibbs. Unlike Gillespie who's test career started after Warne and McGrath's and ended before their's did.


It's hard to rate Sobers as a bowler I agree, but really I think he's historically been a bit overrated. He has the status here as second best after the Don no question(how many drafts is he the first picked) but I'm not quite sure he's that far ahead of some other famous ARs, especially Imran. And really his record is nearly the same as Kallis'

 

[mr_mister]

5 X 5 from 33 tests , better than Gillespie's 8 from 71

You're right, I should have said Botham was a Mark Waugh calibre batsman who bowled like McGrath. That's a more accurate statistical comparison

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You're right, I should have said Botham was a Mark Waugh calibre batsman who bowled like McGrath. That's a more accurate statistical comparison

In that case ,

Sobers was Semi Bradman with bat + Gillespie with ball.

 

[smash84]

In that case ,

Sobers was Semi Bradman with bat + Gillespie with ball.

You can call any batsman semi Bradman who has an average of 50 or above,by that definition

 

[mr_mister]

In that case ,

Sobers was Semi Bradman with bat + Gillespie with ball.

Semi means half you know. You were doing him more of a service by just calling him Sobers + Gillespie

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Semi means half you know. You were doing him more of a service by just calling him Sobers + Gillespie

What about Sobers plus + Gillespie ?

 

[mr_mister]

I'd say more Sobers plus Bichel lol

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Botham peak = atg ball stats + very good bat stats

Sobers peak = atg at peak bat stats + very good ball stats

 

[mr_mister]

Botham peak = atg ball stats + very good bat stats

Sobers peak = atg at peak bat stats + very good ball stats

Botham's batting peak crushes Sober's bowling peak though. Come on. 11 tests in 52 matches is nearly the rate at which some ATG batsmen have got their tons. Sobers might have had a period of increased success with the ball but he was never running through sides and taking bags of wickets right?

 

[smash84]

You are talking about one test here. Botham averaged 35 with the ball and 21 with the bat against WI. Those are horrendous figures spread across 20 matches, a huge size. A moderate upgrade over Ashley Giles.

If one has to pick one of the 80s allrounders to play against an ATG XI, Botham would be the last one to be picked. Of course he would be the first to be picked while pitted against minnows or semi decent opponents.

The funny part is the selective picking of stats. He doesn't mention the 0/117 from 20 overs in the 2nd innings

 

[Malcolm]

In an alternate universe

Procter
100 tests 425 wickets at 22
5000 runs at 34 , 10 X 100s

Rice
100 tests , 300 wickets at 25
6000 runs at 40 , 15 X 100s

Rice's WpM was much lower than 3.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Botham's batting peak crushes Sober's bowling peak though. Come on. 11 tests in 52 matches is nearly the rate at which some ATG batsmen have got their tons. Sobers might have had a period of increased success with the ball but he was never running through sides and taking bags of wickets right?

125 wickets from 33 tests means almost 4 wkts per test. This is when averaging 63.5 with bat and 2 catches per test ( well , almost )

 

[trundler]

I think we're getting a little carried away now

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Rice's WpM was much lower than 3.

Can anyone explain in detail how good was Rice the bowler ?