All time world ODI XI game

[mr_mister]

By that logic Richards is a moderate upgrade over Ponting.

And by the same logic it's incorrect to say Bevan is only a moderate upgrade over Dhoni

 

[trundler]

And by the same logic it's incorrect to say Bevan is only a moderate upgrade over Dhoni

What about De Villiers and Symonds tho

 

[mr_mister]

What about De Villiers and Symonds tho

McGrath and Ambrose?

 

[trundler]

McGrath and Ambrose?

More than moderate to me..

 

[mr_mister]

Harsh on Ambrose

 

[mr_mister]

I guess my point was on an 11 point scale, 2 points only 1 apart from each other are genuinely considered near. As much as I think some of those guys in the first XIs were special, they're not Bradman level outliers over the second XI. A moderate gap is not a slight to Sachin, it's not to say he's only a hair ahead of Waugh. It's saying he's better, comfortably so. But if he's a 10/10 opener and Waugh is anything less than 9/10, what does that say about Hayden, Amla and Rohit many points further down the scale

Is Sachin a 10 and every other opener from the 2nd XI to the 5th in the 7-8 range? Is he that ahead of the curve?

 

[ankitj]

With exception of Kapil Dev and Gilchrist, all other players in the 1st XI are a class above their respective numbers in the 2nd XI. Same cannot be said about 2nd vs. 3rd XIs and so on.

 

[stephen]

With exception of Kapil Dev and Gilchrist, all other players in the 1st XI are a class above their respective numbers in the 2nd XI. Same cannot be said about 2nd vs. 3rd XIs and so on.

Possibly. But then I'd say "a class above" is about the same as "a moderate upgrade [when going from one to the other]". At least in this setting. To say that Mark Waugh is the 4th best ODI opener of all time is debatable, but he definitely belongs in the conversation and is in the same class as the Laras and Greenidges of the world.

So again we come back to the point that the real thing the "moderate upgrade" comment exposed is the amount of hero worship Tendulkar gets. Even a comparison which favors Tendulkar is too little for the deity, at least for the faithful.

 

[h_hurricane]

Harsh on Ambrose

Absolutely. Ambrose was quite a lot more economical than Mcgrath for the period their careers coincided. Mcgrath was better in getting wickets. One thing Mcgrath has over Ambrose is performance in knockout WC matches. Mcgrath just about ahead overall.

 

[trundler]

Possibly. But then I'd say "a class above" is about the same as "a moderate upgrade [when going from one to the other]". At least in this setting. To say that Mark Waugh is the 4th best ODI opener of all time is debatable, but he definitely belongs in the conversation and is in the same class as the Laras and Greenidges of the world.

So again we come back to the point that the real thing the "moderate upgrade" comment exposed is the amount of hero worship Tendulkar gets. Even a comparison which favors Tendulkar is too little for the deity, at least for the faithful.

Semantic treachery.

In non-Stephen usage, moderate would obviously equate to 'in the same class but superior'.

 

[stephen]

Moderate means more than small and less than large.

Going from the best opener to the 3rd or 4th best of all time is hardly large. It's moderate.

 

[mr_mister]

So let's break upgrades up into minor, moderate/medium and major as I feel moderate could be interchanged as a word for medium.

Stephen skipped the minor upgrade comparison but stopped short of saying major upgrade. As only Gilly and arguably Jayasuriya could possibly slot between Sachin and Waugh as openers using this CW exercise as gospel, do we have to say Sachin would be a major upgrade over every other ODI opener in history for an ATG side, with Gilly and Sanath the only possible exceptions?

Edit- because id use the term major upgrade for comparisons like Bradman to Hammond, and Hammond to Hussain.

Or McGrath to Ishant

 

[trundler]

It's a matter of scale/relativity. 10/10 is clearly farther ahead of 8/10 than 8/10 is ahead of 6/10 on a scale of ten. I'll give you an example to illustrate this. On the ICC rankings, Bradman only peaked at 967, followed by 945 by Smith and 943 by Hutton. That 2 point difference between the latter 2 is a lot more significant than a 748 end 750 difference. With ATG players it's slim pickings and relatively speaking, Waugh is significantly inferior to Tendulkar.

**** me I should really go do my maths work.

 

[trundler]

McGrath to ishant is more like a polar difference lol

 

[mr_mister]

Maybe we shouldn't go around saying one ATG is significantly inferior to another though, because other than with Bradman, we don't really do it for test ATGs

 

[mr_mister]

McGrath to ishant is more like a polar difference lol

Then what's McGrath to Rubel Hossain?

 

[trundler]

Then what's McGrath to Rubel Hossain?

Err.. a galactic difference I suppose.

 

[ankitj]

Possibly. But then I'd say "a class above" is about the same as "a moderate upgrade [when going from one to the other]". At least in this setting. To say that Mark Waugh is the 4th best ODI opener of all time is debatable, but he definitely belongs in the conversation and is in the same class as the Laras and Greenidges of the world.

So again we come back to the point that the real thing the "moderate upgrade" comment exposed is the amount of hero worship Tendulkar gets. Even a comparison which favors Tendulkar is too little for the deity, at least for the faithful.

Bah. This forum regards Viv Richards as the best ODI batsman ever. No one has problem if De Villiers or Kohli are rated higher than Tendulkar either. It didn't expose any such thing.

 

[h_hurricane]

Possibly. But then I'd say "a class above" is about the same as "a moderate upgrade [when going from one to the other]". At least in this setting. To say that Mark Waugh is the 4th best ODI opener of all time is debatable, but he definitely belongs in the conversation and is in the same class as the Laras and Greenidges of the world.

So again we come back to the point that the real thing the "moderate upgrade" comment exposed is the amount of hero worship Tendulkar gets. Even a comparison which favors Tendulkar is too little for the deity, at least for the faithful.

No one is hero worshiping if they rate Tendulkar more than just being a moderate upgrade over Waugh. Waugh belongs to the same class as Lara, Greenidge, Haynes and Anwar which is quite a good company to be in.

 

[Bolo]

I like way the 5th team is put together. That is a dangerous bowling attack. The bats are all individually spuds compared to, say, the 1st team, but that's a team that would win a lot of games.