The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Starfighter]

Ron Archer

 

[trundler]

Roger Harper

 

[a massive zebra]

Carl Hooper

 

[ankitj]

Shame on you for considering domestic T20s..

Plead guilty.

 

[trundler]

Plead guilty.

Only robelinda videos can cleanse your soul now.

 

[morgieb]

Ron Archer

Doesn't help that a knee injury ends your career when you're 23. Reckon he could've been a gun bowling all-rounder.

 

[ankitj]

Not sure if it was this thread where we were discussing Kapil Dev's ODI batting exploit. Nevertheless I will post here something I discovered while looking at his top scoring innings. All but 1 of his 15 scores of 50+ came at SR >100. Quite remarkable especially considering everyone of them came in 80s:

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

Certainly a lock-in in explosive batsmen's DOI XI.

 

[ankitj]

And at the end of 80s, Kapil's career SR was >101. Dropped to 95.xx in the following years in 90s.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I still maintain that Kapil was a glorified slogger in odis. His record is about the same as afridi's and no one really considers Lala as some excellent batsman in the format.

 

[ankitj]

I still maintain that Kapil was a glorified slogger in odis. His record is about the same as afridi's and no one really considers Lala as some excellent batsman in the format.

I sort of agree which is why Kapil doesn't make it to my ATG ODI XI although he did make CW's ATG XI.

 

[h_hurricane]

Not sure if it was this thread where we were discussing Kapil Dev's ODI batting exploit. Nevertheless I will post here something I discovered while looking at his top scoring innings. All but 1 of his 15 scores of 50+ came at SR >100. Quite remarkable especially considering everyone of them came in 80s:

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

Certainly a lock-in in explosive batsmen's DOI XI.

That match in Brisbane(3rd in this list) where he launched Jeremy Coney twice over the straight boundary invoking hilarious reaction from Coney was amazing stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9SamBeGzDY

 

[h_hurricane]

About Kapil it can be certainly said that he was above what his batting stats suggested. Without his batting, India would have certainly not won 1983 WC and most probably 1985 WCC where he played that swashbuckling knock in the semis. Saved us from the ultimate embarrassment of not winning a global trophy as we clearly did not look good enough to do it till 2011.

His batting in ODIs dropped alarmingly in the last 4 years (no half centuries from 1990-94), though I remember him playing some great cameos in the 1992 WC and hero cup final.

 

[Starfighter]

Scoring a good innings at a particular time doesn't mean one has a greater ability as a batsman than a comparable player who scored in perhaps less important matches, or a greater ability than one's stats. It simply means you had good (or lucky) timing.

 

[Bolo]

Scoring a good innings at a particular time doesn't mean one has a greater ability as a batsman than a comparable player who scored in perhaps less important matches, or a greater ability than one's stats. It simply means you had good (or lucky) timing.

Mostly fair for this example.

Some players struggle more with pressure than others though, which makes them more likely to underperform in a key match.

And some guys struggle more with motivation/concentration if there is nothing at stake. See the story of miller shouldering his bat/barry batting with the edge of his bat. So what appears to be an overperfomance could just be them playing to potential because the situation demands it. More applicable to tests though, and has little bearing on an innings like this that is a complete career outlier

 

[TheJediBrah]

Scoring a good innings at a particular time doesn't mean one has a greater ability as a batsman than a comparable player who scored in perhaps less important matches, or a greater ability than one's stats. It simply means you had good (or lucky) timing.

Nah, pressure is real and while performing when it matters definitely has an element of luck & happenstance, a big part of it is having the ability to rise to the occasion

 

[trundler]

Revised fringe all rounder XI:

Shastri 9
Hollioake 7
Collingwood 10
Hooper 8
Boje+ 11
Razzaq 1
Harvey 3
L Cairns 4
O'Donnell 2
Harris 6
Symcox 5


Bats very deep or the tail starts very early, depending on how you look at it lol

 

[Prince EWS]

Revised fringe all rounder XI:

Shastri 9
Hollioake 7
Collingwood 10
Hooper 8
Boje+ 11
Razzaq 1
Harvey 3
L Cairns 4
O'Donnell 2
Harris 6
Symcox 5


Bats very deep or the tail starts very early, depending on how you look at it lol

Andrew Hall definitely has to be the wicket keeper IMO.

 

[ankitj]

Nah, pressure is real and while performing when it matters definitely has an element of luck & happenstance, a big part of it is having the ability to rise to the occasion

Pressure is real when players or sides feel different amounts of it. If everyone is under equal pressure, its affect cancels out and it doesn't matter.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Pressure is real when players or sides feel different amounts of it. If everyone is under equal pressure, its affect cancels out and it doesn't matter.

No, pressure is real when players/teams let it affect their play negatively. And it absolutely does happen.

 

[fredfertang]

Andrew Hall definitely has to be the wicket keeper IMO.

Could go for George Brown of Hampshire - picked 7 times for England as a wicketkeeper batsman but took more than 600 First Class wickets as a seamer