Hashim Amla- the most misleading odi stats ever

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah if you're playing every game in India it's fair to say Dhoni's a lock

 

[stephen]

In the 90s it was said that the first two batsmen picked in an ATXI were Viv Richards and Michael Bevan.

It's fair to say that the game had changed a bit since then.

 

[Daemon]

Viv, Kohli, Sachin, Murali and Akram are locks imo. The rest depend on conditions and preferences.

 

[stephen]

Viv, Kohli, Sachin, Murali and Akram are locks imo. The rest depend on conditions and preferences.

Garner should be ahead of Akram but both are no brainers really. The fast bowling picks itself - Akram, Garner, McGrath. The spin bowler is a choice - probably based on conditions - between Murali, Saqlain and Warne.

Keeper is a choice between Gilchrist, Dhoni or perhaps Buttler or De Kock, depending on how much you value modern stats (which I don't value highly at all) and what role you need the keeper to fill in your batting lineup.

Given Viv can take the role of 6th bowler, you need 5 to 10 overs out of one of your other batsmen.

I'd argue that Sachin, Viv, Kohli and de Villiers pick themselves at 1, 3, 4 and 5 and they occupy 4/7 batting spots.

So that leaves 2, 6 and 7 as the remaining spots to fill. Who goes in those spots needs to cover the roles of keeper and 5th bowler and probably finisher.

Some players in the mix:
Keeper: Gilchrist, Dhoni
All rounder/5th bowler: Klusener, Symonds, Kapil, Watson, M Waugh, Jayasuriya
Finisher: Dhoni, Bevan, Hussey
Opener: Gilchrist, Watson, M Waugh, Jayasuriya
Middle order: Dhoni, Klusener, Symonds, Kapil, Bevan, Hussey

It's harsh on players like Ponting who is an ATG at the format and is in the top 3 number 3s of all time but isn't quite good enough to keep out Kohli or Viv.

 

[Daemon]

Oh yeah Garner and McGrath lol.

 

[Burgey]

Here you go:

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

5 or more wickets since 1990

I wanted to quote this post because the link will always show that Murali averages 75 per wicket in Australia. And that will always make me smile if I'm having a bad day.

 

[h_hurricane]

I wanted to quote this post because the link will always show that Murali averages 75 per wicket in Australia. And that will always make me smile if I'm having a bad day.

What this stat also tells us is that Chandana, Bevan, Shastri and Katich are better than Warne is his own den.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

What this stat also tells us is that Chandana, Bevan, Shastri and Katich are better than Warne is his own den.

Warne bowled over ten times as many overs as those 4 combined.

(I realise you're being facetious)

 

[h_hurricane]

Warne bowled over ten times as many overs as those 4 combined.

(I realise you're being facetious)

Not really. Murali was judged based on a sum total of 5 matches in Aus. See the post to which I replied.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Viv, Kohli, Sachin, Murali and Akram are locks imo. The rest depend on conditions and preferences.

And de Villiers imo

 

[vcs]

And de Villiers imo

If you make him keep, it'd be one hell of a side.

I remember him opening early on in his career, maybe we could push both Gilchrist/Dhoni out and go:

De Villiers
Tendulkar
Kohli
Richards
Symonds
Bevan
Klusener
Akram
Murali
Garner
McGrath

 

[ankitj]

Dhoni is nowhere near a lock, particularly outside the subcontinent.

You keep saying such things without actually checking facts. With Exception of South Africa, Dhoni has very good record everywhere else. We are talking about his ODI record remember, not test.

I also remember you saying Saqlain won't be as effective in unhelpful surfaces which is not borne out by facts.

 

[ankitj]

Anyway, why should every other thread descend into an ATG XI discussion?

 

[Burgey]

Not really. Murali was judged based on a sum total of 5 matches in Aus. See the post to which I replied.

75!

Seventy-****ing-five.

 

[stephen]

You keep saying such things without actually checking facts. With Exception of South Africa, Dhoni has very good record everywhere else. We are talking about his ODI record remember, not test.

I also remember you saying Saqlain won't be as effective in unhelpful surfaces which is not borne out by facts.

Good, yes. Great enough to walk into an ATG team without discussion or consideration of the other alternatives, no.

Dhoni inside Asia was a beast. In England, South Africa and Australia though there are better options for his role.

His world cup record is ordinary, with only one innings of note in three world cups (his 91* in the 2011 final). And he hid down the order in the 2015 final when he should have batted 4 to give his team the best chance possible.

Dhoni was great, particularly in Asia and New Zealand. But being great in half the world's doesn't get you into world all time sides.

 

[ankitj]

Dhoni has won at least one MoS award each in England and Australia.

 

[h_hurricane]

75!

Seventy-****ing-five.

90 ! freaking NINETY. Lillee's bowling average in WI and sub continent.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Good, yes. Great enough to walk into an ATG team without discussion or consideration of the other alternatives, no.

Dhoni inside Asia was a beast. In England, South Africa and Australia though there are better options for his role.

His world cup record is ordinary, with only one innings of note in three world cups (his 91* in the 2011 final). And he hid down the order in the 2015 final when he should have batted 4 to give his team the best chance possible.

Dhoni was great, particularly in Asia and New Zealand. But being great in half the world's doesn't get you into world all time sides.

Dhoni has always done decently in Australia hasnt he? He wasn't a great batsman outside the subcontinent in test cricket but people often say the same for his ODI batting which has always struck me as a bit odd, he's done well overseas in the format.

 

[ankitj]

Here is a comparison of MoS awards won by Dhoni and his only plausible rival, Gilchrist:

MS Dhoni
Award	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100
player of the series	7	346	183*	115.33	1
Sri Lanka in India ODI Series, 2005/06
player of the series	2	127	91*	127	0
India in Bangladesh ODI Series, 2007
player of the series	5	193	76	38.6	0
India in Sri Lanka ODI Series, 2008
player of the series	4	182	95	91	0
India in West Indies ODI Series, 2009
player of the series	5	236	78*	78.66	0
NatWest Series [India in England], 2011
player of the series	5	212	87*	-	0
England in India ODI Series, 2011/12
player of the series	3	193	87*	193	0
India in Australia ODI Series, 2018/19
Adam Gilchrist
Award	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100
player of the series	5	231	77	46.2	0
Aiwa Cup (Australia, India, Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka), 1999
player of the series	8	498	172	62.25	1
VB Series (Australia, India, Zimbabwe in Australia), 2003/04
player of the series	3	180	103	60	1

This will be a good time to admit you were wrong.

 

[stephen]

Murali averaging 75 in Australia would mean he'd need to take 19 more wickets without conceding a run to bring his average down under 30. At his rate of wickets per match that would take him 8 tests to achieve. But that's only without him conceding a run.

If, instead, Murali took wickets at his career average and wpm for 8 tests (giving him 13 tests in Australia), his average would be 33 in Australia. However, there is nothing to suggest he would do this and 8 tests in Australia is 3-4 tours for Sri Lanka. The only foreign spinner to play more than that many tests here was a part time leggy by the name of Sachin Tendulkar. The best full timers were Kumble and Vettori who played 10 and 12 respectively.