Was Ricky Ponting the best captain ever?

[Daemon]

The greatest leader in my short time of watching cricket has been Misbah.

 

[trundler]

That's true.

Modern cricket is at quite a disadvantage with regards to captaincy as well, in that we can see and dissect every decision made, and the influence of data and coaches are overwhelming. We don't get romanticised descriptions of players leadership abilities that we would get even as recently as the 70s/80s. Back then people rave about how Brearley got the most out of Botham. Now we would complain about how unprofessional Botham is, and Brearley would probably be made redundant by overbearing coaches and data analysts.

I think we can all agree that commanding the respect of the dressing room is a must for a good captain. What else can we evaluate them on?

Getting the team to punch above its weight.

 

[cnerd123]

Getting the team to punch above its weight.

Why wouldn't you credit the coaching staff for that tho?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Obviously, yes.

 

[Bolo]

Getting the team to punch above its weight.

The only meaningful measure. Anything else is just a factor that enables this.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Other than the obvious downfall, wasn't Hansies WL record quite impressive too?

Imagine how good his WL record would have been if he tried to win every game

 

[Victor Ian]

It has to be Waugh. Won a greater percent in tests. Took the team up to the lofty heights in ODI. Changed the team culture to become the ruthless machine it was to become. Ponting just kept it there.

In fact, we all know it goes Border, Waugh, Ponting. Success rate is not everything.

 

[Victor Ian]

* in Australia cricket, post WSC.

 

[Spark]

Of all the "semi-regular off-beat perhaps a little trollish sledger forays into cricket chat" threads I was expecting, this was not one of them.

 

[Slifer]

Mark Taylor for me. With all due respect, Waugh and Ponting played rsa, Pakistan and wi that were on their last legs especially bowling wise. Taylor beat the above teams when they were still highly competitive. Taylor's Australia won in 90s Pakistan I dont think most on here can appreciate what an accomplishment that is. Also beat wi home and away with a red hot Lara and a still great bowling attack. His battles with rsa with pollock and Donald(peak ) were legendary. Ricky and Steve imo played vs much lesser teams.

 

[Burgey]

Omfg this is so dire it's not funny.

What part did Vaughan, Trescothick and Murray Mints play in 2009 and by far the biggest blight on Pontings Ashes record 10/11?

And I do wonder, did you ever stop to consider who was England bowling coach in 2005?

The point would be that but for England cheating in 2005 he’d have had a win as captain in England, thereby rectifying the hole in his record.

 

[stephen]

Rating the Australian captains in my lifetime:

Border - legend. Great man manager, tactically and strategically conservative but pulled the side out of its darkest period. Deserves a knighthood, OA and to be crowned king of the British empire for what he did for Australian cricket.

Taylor - great tactically and strategically. Batting suffered while a captain more than any of the others, but probably the best all round captain for a side that was already good.

Waugh - continued in the Border tradition of being a hard man. Took Australia's great team and made them the best. Not as good as Taylor tactically.

Ponting - solid man manager, conservative tactically. Not as good tactically as Taylor and made a few strategic blunders.

Clarke - terrible man manager but the best tactician. His on- field captaincy was second to none. Pretty much every one of his risky hair brained plans paid off.

Smith - the worst man manager of the lot. Also a poor tactician. Given the job when he was too young, tried to be a Border, ended up being a Hughes.

Paine - good man manager, poor tactically. Defaulted into the position but had done a decent job so far.

 

[silentstriker]

I was wondering this earlier, and having thought about it there isn't any other player who has such a great record as captain in the modern era.

Played the majority of his career as captain of the Aus side in one form or another. 77 test matches as skipper, and 48 of those are wins. 165 ODI wins out of 230 matches at the helm. Cannot think of anyone who has had such an impressive reign, which leads me to the conclusion that he is perhaps the best captain of all time.

And all through the rigours of captaincy his batting remained most unaffected (averaging 51 in tests as captain), basically the best batsman in the side. In my lifetime there just hasn't been anyone close to matching this level of performance. I guess Steve Waugh comes close, but there aren't really other players who come close to having a comparable record imo.

No. Two words: Over rates. Thank you for the series Ricky Ponting.

 

[Burgey]

TBF, had Ponting got a short suspension from the ICC because of over rates, CA would probably have banned him for a year.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Was it true that he used to drink during matches?

 

[Burgey]

I think in his prime he could have played most blokes while pissed

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

if you go purely by averages then hard to beat Imran averaging 19 with the ball and 51 with the bat during his captaincy

WG averaged 54 and 28

 

[Adders]

The point would be that but for England cheating in 2005 he’d have had a win as captain in England, thereby rectifying the hole in his record.

See, I know you don't believe this for a second Burgey......but that other bloke, he seems dead set on it. You should feel ashamed for encouraging his folly with your shtick.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah, England's cheating in 2005 doesn't really stand out to me.

I mean they've been doing it ever since so it's just become normal.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Definitely not. Tactically he wasn't good. Batted well yes, but you're own individual performance is only a part of what makes someone a great captain. He was pretty poor when it came to field settings and attacking the game.

"You're"? You idiot.