Wastemen etc

[stephen]

Which middle order all rounders are actually better than Symonds was? A case can be made for Klusener but there are few batsmen in ODIs that have anything like Symonds' middle order record. Especially not with the capability of bowling teen overs of part time seam or spin and being one of the best fielders ever.

 

[Bolo]

Which middle order all rounders are actually better than Symonds was? A case can be made for Klusener but there are few batsmen in ODIs that have anything like Symonds' middle order record. Especially not with the capability of bowling teen overs of part time seam or spin and being one of the best fielders ever.

Nobody comes close in the same role, including Klusenar, who was a front line bowler and lower order bat.

You could easily argue for or against the role Symonds plays, but what he did in the role is clear.

 

[Tom Flint]

Average of 37 with the ball is pretty ordinary tbh. Doesn't even have the longevity to back it up.
He played in the best odi team ever with 4 of the best cricketers ever but he was no where near one of them.
Using your logic that bowlers had the upper hand back then makes his economy rate of 5 rpo look even worse anyway

 

[Bolo]

Average of 37 with the ball is pretty ordinary tbh. Doesn't even have the longevity to back it up.
He played in the best odi team ever with 4 of the best cricketers ever but he was no where near one of them.
Using your logic that bowlers had the upper hand back then makes his economy rate of 5 rpo look even worse anyway

He isn't Viv + Mcgrath. Doesn't mean he is not the best in his niche though. Everyone else who is a quality allrounder is a top or lower order bat

 

[Daemon]

Yeah he's one of the best middle order batting all rounders, second only to Kedar Jadhav

 

[Second Spitter]

Average of 37 with the ball is pretty ordinary tbh. Doesn't even have the longevity to back it up.
He played in the best odi team ever with 4 of the best cricketers ever but he was no where near one of them.
Using your logic that bowlers had the upper hand back then makes his economy rate of 5 rpo look even worse anyway

You may want to re-check your stats, Roy's ODI batting average was 39.75 @ S/R 92.44 puts him in elite of his contemporaries (compared with Kallis 44.36 @ 72.89)

 

[Prince EWS]

Which middle order all rounders are actually better than Symonds was?

Viv actually bowled more balls per match than Symonds, and he was certainly a better batsman, so I'd make the case for him if you're talking about the Symonds role as its own thing. Obviously he was a worse bowler but they both bowled around five overs per game, and I'd rather have Viv bat in the middle order and bowl five overs than Symonds.

 

[Bolo]

Viv actually bowled more balls per match than Symonds, and he was certainly a better batsman, so I'd make the case for him if you're talking about the Symonds role as its own thing. Obviously he was a worse bowler but they both bowled around five overs per game, and I'd rather have Viv bat in the middle order and bowl five overs than Symonds.

Different batting role though. Viv more top/high middle and Symonds more middle/low middle

Edit: actually a pretty fair comparison though. Comparison to Viv doesn't look good for anyone though.

 

[Tom Flint]

You may want to re-check your stats, Roy's ODI batting average was 39.75 @ S/R 92.44 puts him in elite of his contemporaries (compared with Kallis 44.36 @ 72.89)

I never qouted his batting stats��

 

[cnerd123]

Viv actually bowled more balls per match than Symonds, and he was certainly a better batsman, so I'd make the case for him if you're talking about the Symonds role as its own thing. Obviously he was a worse bowler but they both bowled around five overs per game, and I'd rather have Viv bat in the middle order and bowl five overs than Symonds.

I like this

We can then play Kohli at 3 in the ATG ODI side.

 

[trundler]

Viv's ODI bowling is very underrated and he has the highest average batting in the top order whilst bowling a sizeable amount of overs. If you get 5 from Viv you can play an extra batsman.

 

[Dendarii]

I'm not suggesting that he's necessarily better than Symonds, but Hansie Cronje compares pretty favourably statswise with Symonds with a batting average of 38.64 and bowling average of 34.78. Although Symonds strike rate is much higher - 92.44 vs 76.47, which is a fair amount even taking the different eras into account.

 

[Flem274*]

all these blokes are poor mens grant elliott

 

[Burgey]

I like this

We can then play Kohli at 3 in the ATG ODI side.

Viv always bats three in an ATG odi side. Kohli and everyone else who make the team then get to pick over the scraps of what’s left of the bowlers.

 

[stephen]

Even just on batting Symonds has to be in the discussion. Average of 40 at a strike rate over 90 made him one of the best in the world even just by that metric. Very few batsmen scored a significant amount of runs batting below 4 at a strike rate of 85+.

Obviously batsmen who have played in the last 3 years are excluded. Stats for current batsmen really can't be trusted since they replaced bowlers with bowling machines after the last world cup.

 

[stephen]

I just checked - Symonds is 4th on the list of run scorers in batting positions 5-7 with a strike rate over 85. Behind only Dhoni, Yuvraj and Raina in terms of runs scored.

He's 6th on the same list (min 1000 runs) by batting average behind de Villiers, Dhoni, Hussey, Clarke and Stokes.

Obviously de Villiers, Hussey and Dhoni are all ahead of Symonds as pure batsmen but he's not as far off the pack as one might imagine. He's also an away/neutral specialist which is nothing if not interesting.

Obviously one would not pick Symonds before Tendulkar, Dhoni or Garner in an ATXI, but he certainly would be floating around the top two or three sides.

 

[stephen]

FWIW, an AT ODI XI with Symonds in it:

Tendulkar
Jayasuriya
Richards
Kohli
De Villiers
Symonds
Dhoni
Akram
Warne
Garner
McGrath

Symonds+Jayasuriya+Richards for the 5th bowler duties.

 

[trundler]

Do I even have to point out Warne is terribly underserved in an AT ODI XI

 

[Bolo]

Bevan ahead of him as a specialist as well.

Not sure about the value added by 3 mediocre spinners. More of the same. Don't like Jaya and Symonds in the same team

 

[OverratedSanity]

Would much rather have klusener than Symonds tbh.