South Africa team selection

[Pup Clarke]

What would a post-WC SA X1 look like? You've got to think Hash, JP, Dale and Tahir will retire, possibly Faf too.

QDK, Hendricks, Markram, Mulder, Miller, Klaasen, AP, Morris/Savage?, KG, Ngidi, Shamsi/Maharaj

The few times I've seen Mulder bat he looks a classical, orthodox player, and could possibly be someone to build the innings around. Could fit it an 7/8 and also wouldn't be mandatory for him to bowl 10 with the additional bowling option

 

[StephenZA]

What would a post-WC SA X1 look like? You've got to think Hash, JP, Dale and Tahir will retire, possibly Faf too.

QDK, Hendricks, Markram, Mulder, Miller, Klaasen, AP, Morris/Savage?, KG, Ngidi, Shamsi/Maharaj

The few times I've seen Mulder bat he looks a classical, orthodox player, and could possibly be someone to build the innings around. Could fit it an 7/8 and also wouldn't be mandatory for him to bowl 10 with the additional bowling option

Unsure who will replace, lots of potential but nobody has made a definite claim. Mulder will probably be a top 5. van Tonder, Breetzke, Savage, Smith, Moonsamy, Rickelton, de Zorzi, Verreynne .... . And we must not forget de Bruyn. Can see there being a 2 year transition as the younger guys come in and fight for places.

 

[SeamUp]

Talking about the above. I think this news release is very pertinent to the debate.



On Friday, Cricket South Africa announced a revamped programme for the Powerade National Men’s Academy that will see the selected squad being involved in a three-year cycle rather than the current one-year cycle.


‘The Powerade National Academy Programme forms a very strategic part of our developmental pipeline and has as its aim to prepare young players for the demands of professional cricket,’ commented CSA general manager of cricket Corrie van Zyl.

‘These selected players that are carefully identified include previous graduates of the SA U19 programme, performing senior provincial and emerging franchise players.

‘The new three-year cycle will be introduced with immediate effect during the 2018-19 season. This will include head coach Shukri Conrad determining a specific program for each player in conjunction with the player’s franchise or provincial coach, post the personal development plan (PDP) meeting with each player.

‘There will be a minimum of 15 players in the Academy Squad, who will also form the SA Emerging Players Touring Squad, and the squad may be added to at any time as new talent is identified or as players are promoted to the SA A squad by the national selection panel (NSP),’ concluded Van Zyl.

‘Powerade is an avid supporter of sports in South Africa and is a proud partner of Cricket South Africa as the official hydration partner to the Proteas,’ added Kamini Redhi, senior brand manager of advanced hydration.

‘Together with Cricket South Africa, Powerade is committed to providing young South African cricketers with the means to achieve their performance goals through the academy. We are incredibly excited about the young cricketing talent that will pass through the academy and are proud to be playing our part in their development,’ added Redhi.

The revamped programme will run as follows:

Specialised camps in and out of season for various cricket disciplines will be held at the Centre of Excellence (CoE)
Individual intervention coaching and monitoring visits at franchise or member level
Player development plan progress evaluation in conjunction with the franchise or senior provincial coach and player
Two-week preparatory camps prior to any in-or-outbound tour
Two-week induction camp for all players once a year
The NSP has, in conjunction with CSA’s High Performance Centre Coaches, selected the following squad of players for the first three-year cycle that runs until September 2021:

Powerade National Academy Squad
Tladi Bokako (Cape Cobras)
Eathan Bosch (Dolphins)
Matthew Breetzke (Warriors)
Nandre Burger (Highveld Lions)
Tony de Zorzi (Titans)
Tshepang Dithole (Highveld Lions)
Bjorn Fortuin (Highveld Lions)
Sibonelo Makhanya (Dolphins)
Wandile Makwetu (Titans)
Janneman Malan (Cape Cobras)
Sinethemba Qeshile (Warriors)
Kyle Simmonds (Cape Cobras)
Lutho Sipamla (Warriors)
Jason Smith (Cape Cobras)
Raynard van Tonder (Knights)

I would say Kyle Verreynne (21), Edward Moore (25), David Bedingham (24), Calvin Savage (25) & obviously Daryn Dupavillon (24)/Lizaad Williams (25) can be in SA A mix given opportunities but aren't in the academy squad or SA A squad right at this moment. Two of the best batsmen in the 4-day series is Vaughn van Jaarsveld (33) & Pite van Biljon (32) but it is unlikely we will see them pull on the green and gold.


But if we look at the pyramid.

CSA Contracted

Batsmen
Dean Elgar (31), Aiden Markram (24), Hashim Amla (35) , Faf du Plessis (34), Temba Bavuma (28), Dave Miller (29), JP Duminy (34)
Keeper
Quinton de Kock (26)
Spinners
Keshav Maharaj (28), Imran Tahir (39), Tabraiz Shamsi (28)
Seamers
Dale Steyn (35), Kagiso Rabada (23), Vernon Philander (33), Lungi Ngidi (22), Andile Phehlukwayo (22), Chris Morris (31)

SA A players (some more entrenched in Proteas set-up than others)

Batsmen
Pieter Malan (29), Sarel Erwee (29), Reeza Hendricks (29), Theunis de Bruyn (26), Farhaan Behardien (35), Zubayr Hamza (23), Senuran Muthusamy (24), Rassie van der Dussen (29), Christiaan Jonker (32), Khaya Zondo (28), Gihahn Cloete (26)
Keepers
Heinrich Klaasen (27) , Rudi Second (29)
Batting All-rounders
Wiaan Mulder (20), Dwaine Pretorius (29)
Spinners
Dane Piedt (28), Shaun von Berg (32)
Seamers
Dane Paterson (29), Junior Dala (29), Beuran Hendricks (28), Duanne Olivier (26), Anrich Nortje (25), Sisanda Magala (27), Robbie Frylinck (34)


CSA Academy squad

Batsmen
Janneman Malan (22), Tony de Zorzi (21), Matthew Breetzke (20), Raynard van Tonder (20), Sinethemba Qeshile (19), Wandile Makwetu (19), Sibonelo Makhanya (22), Tshepang Dithole (25)
Keepers
Breetzke, Qeshile & Makwetu can all keep.
Batting all-rounder
Jason Smith (24)
Spinners
Bjorn Fortuin (24), Kyle Simmonds (24)
Seamers
Nandre Burger (23), Lutho Sipamla (20), Eathan Bosch (20), Tladi Bokako (25)


*Dithole and Makhanya shouldn't be there at this moment. The fact they selected Simmonds as the other spinner with Fortuin did surprise me even though I was impressed when I saw him for Boland. Both spinners are slow left-arm. I think in their minds J.Malan, de Zorzi, Breetzke, van Tonder, Qeshile, Makwetu , Smith & all 6 bowlers are in their minds as potential Proteas realistically. Obviously they want black African batsmen and to work with (de Zorzi, Qeshile, Makwetu) is vital for them. I think J.Malan/de Zorzi has shown versatility that they can be an all format openers. Breetzke , van Tonder, Qeshile are the class players with definite test match potential who can bat top 4 in Limited overs cricket whereas Smith and Makwetu at their best and if they can get to peak ability then are limited overs options at 5/6/7 . I like the bowling options. Burger left-arm and can swing it at 135-141 whilst Sipamla has a lovely action and comes right over the top and hits the seam (I need to see what speeds he is now because I always though he can get quicker) and Bosch is your bowling all-rounder and I spoke about the other day in SA Domestic Thread.

 

[Bahseph]

I really wouldn't want to be a selector when it comes to the no. 7 spot. Every option has pros and cons and none of them are really putting their hands up.

Personally I like Mulder. I've seen him live and his bowling and batting techniques look proper. But as many of you said he isn't the no. 7 we need. Unless we push him up to 5 and JP and Miller one down. That does seem like a huge gamble though.

Next I'm leaning towards Lucky. The reason behind that is his type of bowling compliments Rabada, Steyn, Ngidi and Tahir. But his batting is not up to an international no. 7 level. And with Steyn at 6 drop we won't be chasing 250+ often, but I guess that's the point of this bowling attack.

I do love me an inform Morris. Big hitter with a good technique and when on song he is a bowler that can run through teams. Our most inconsistent of our options though. Probably better suited to one spot lower.

Pretorius isn't a joke cricketer. You just feel he is best with the new ball and at no. 6. And he isn't getting any of those positions in this team at present. Another time and he would have a long run in the ODI team ala Ryan McLaren back in the day.

The outside bet is Frylinck. He offers skills that none of these men possess,but he will definitely be a pick for the now.

I don't want to see 7 batsman. The reason being is that it's a middling selection. Are we trying to bat teams out of the game or bowl them out? Especially when the 7th batsman would probably be Behardian because he bowls a little. No buys for me.

 

[Dendarii]

Next I'm leaning towards Lucky. The reason behind that is his type of bowling compliments Rabada, Steyn, Ngidi and Tahir. But his batting is not up to an international no. 7 level. And with Steyn at 6 drop we won't be chasing 250+ often, but I guess that's the point of this bowling attack.

I'm leaning towards him to. He's actually been bowling pretty well of late - he seems to either be picking up wickets or keeping it tight (or both), which is exactly what you want from him. He's never going to run through a side the way the others might, but he's not letting up the pressure. Admittedly, he's had the luxury of coming on after Steyn, Rabada, and Ngidi have made inroads, but he still has had job to do, which he's done.

As for his batting, I do think he's got potential, which he has shown glimpses of. But it is something he needs to work on, and he would probably benefit for being given more responsibility with the bat in domestic cricket. He was probably introduced to international cricket a bit too early, which may have hampered the development of his batting.

I think the real problem with that number seven spot is that most of the all round options bat and bowl pretty well but don't do either quite well enough to make the team on one discipline alone. If you were to pick our five best bowlers and our six best batsmen then none of the guys we've been discussing would feature (although I'm not really sure who our fifth best bowler is). Morris perhaps come closest with his bowling, but I agree that he's too inconsistent.

Maybe Mulder with his batting, but he would need to bat higher up the order, and as I have said before I'm not convinced that his bowling in this form of the game is there yet. So I wouldn't want to have to rely on getting ten overs out of him (or him and Duminy together), which means that doesn't solve the problem.

 

[SeamUp]

Well summed up Dendarii. My exact thoughts on the situation. If Lucky isn't having a great day with the ball having a Duminy to fall back on is ideal. Not sure why Markram doesn't bowl more. Seems to be going the way of Smith/Elgar bowling less and less as they get into SA system.

It will be intetesting to see what they do tomorrow with the team in Hobart. If Morris plays how do they use him. At 7 may mean they gave all 3 the chance there or does he come in for 1 of the frontline seamers.

 

[StephenZA]

If we had won think they would have possibly played all 3 or at least 2 of the allrounders 'resting' Steyn. Unsure if they will do that now. Expect a straight swap to play Morris in place of 'Hulk' now.

Markram getting in 2 or 3 overs would be great. Think Duminy may make a big difference. Since giving up the longer form he has been good with both bat and ball; I do think he can bowl at least 5 overs for us during the WC if needed.


As an aside I do think that Dala has a good shot at the 5th bowler, but don't think he will go to WC.

 

[Dendarii]

Not sure why Markram doesn't bowl more. Seems to be going the way of Smith/Elgar bowling less and less as they get into SA system.

That is rather puzzling given his List A stats, where he's averaging 23.71 with the ball. Admittedly, that's only based on 15 matches, so maybe that's overstating his ability a bit, but it definitely points to him being a decent part-timer who should be used more.

Although I suppose maybe he hasn't been used all that much in recent matches as there hasn't been much need. When you've got those frontline bowlers wreaking the havoc they have there's no need to call on the likes of Markram.

 

[SeamUp]

What would a post-WC SA X1 look like? You've got to think Hash, JP, Dale and Tahir will retire, possibly Faf too.

QDK, Hendricks, Markram, Mulder, Miller, Klaasen, AP, Morris/Savage?, KG, Ngidi, Shamsi/Maharaj

The few times I've seen Mulder bat he looks a classical, orthodox player, and could possibly be someone to build the innings around. Could fit it an 7/8 and also wouldn't be mandatory for him to bowl 10 with the additional bowling option

It is always exciting trying to work out the next cycle. Obviously the 2023 WC is in India.

Players I would like to see in the mix come then.

Top-order batsmen
[Quinton de Kock , Aiden Markram, Theunis de Bruyn, Dave Miller] Janneman Malan, Matthew Breetzke, Raynard van Tonder
5-6-7
[Wiaan Mulder, Heinrich Klaasen, Jason Smith,] Sinethemba Qeshile, Calvin Savage, Wandile Makwetu
#8 (or 2nd spinner)
[Andile Phehlukwayo], Eathan Bosch
Spinner
[Tabraiz Shamsi], Keshav Maharaj, George Linde, Bjorn Fortuin, Dyllan Matthews
Quicks
[Kagiso Rabada, Lungi Ngidi,] Daryn Dupavillon, Anrich Nortje, Nandre Burger, Lutho Sipamla


Chris Morris is 36 & Dwaine Pretorius/Reeza Hendricks 34 for the next WC and haven't nailed down positions at the moment. Obviously immediately post WC we may see these guys for a bit though.

QdK and Miller need to take the batting forward. There is 100-making ability in those 7 names for the top-order.

5-6-7 has talented options and different varieties of players. Can bowl seam-up and there are keepers etc

Finding the spin options will be interesting. I think Fortuin and Linde can clear the ropes and are decent limited over SLA. Dyllan Matthews is very raw but is probably our most exciting young wrist-spinner. Will be under Imran Tahir's wing in MSL.

Quicks speak for themselves. But I am excited about those 4.

 

[StephenZA]

Outside the obvious #7 is a problem. What concerns me the most is QDK's continuous lack of form. It is becoming a real issue with our shortened batting lineup.

I think that Miller and Faf showed today exactly how we need to play our LO cricket. We can't go from ball one, we are not England batting down to 9. Get in and catch up later, the quality of our top 6 batsmen is pretty high and if any of the top 4 get 100+ (even off 120 balls) we will probably score 280+ which our bowling has a high chance of defending.

 

[GRAB]

Feel like Frylinck isn't a good enough batsmen @ 7 unless there are 5 overs or less. Also feel his bowling isn't good enough against international batsmen outside of the last 10 where he can play an Ian Harvey type role. He's most effective when batsmen go at him. He should be milk-able for 6/8 an over quite easily under most other circumstances though.

Yup, Philander as an ODI batsman is like Parnell. Parnell's best knocks for Warriors/Cobras were as an opener, and we had much better options than him... Needed time to build, couldn't just launch.

 

[SeamUp]

Feel like Frylinck isn't a good enough batsmen @ 7 unless there are 5 overs or less. Also feel his bowling isn't good enough against international batsmen outside of the last 10 where he can play an Ian Harvey type role. He's most effective when batsmen go at him. He should be milk-able for 6/8 an over quite easily under most other circumstances though.

Yup, Philander as an ODI batsman is like Parnell. Parnell's best knocks for Warriors/Cobras were as an opener, and we had much better options than him... Needed time to build, couldn't just launch.

It is probably true of Frylinck. His batting and bowling could be bottom of the scale but if it comes off then it comes off. You probably got to feel his chance has gone now though. Also joined BPL so he is starting too look at that earning potential.

Vern plays proper cricket strokes and the minute he loses his shape while batting everything positive about his batting is gone I feel.

 

[SeamUp]

Outside the obvious #7 is a problem. What concerns me the most is QDK's continuous lack of form. It is becoming a real issue with our shortened batting lineup.

I think that Miller and Faf showed today exactly how we need to play our LO cricket. We can't go from ball one, we are not England batting down to 9. Get in and catch up later, the quality of our top 6 batsmen is pretty high and if any of the top 4 get 100+ (even off 120 balls) we will probably score 280+ which our bowling has a high chance of defending.

He got a good nut today. 2nd ODI dismissal is the frustrating one & from the first ODI we wanted him to be more ruthless but he gave us a good start.

But he has to be scoring runs for us in WC. If he does, we are a different animal.

 

[SeamUp]

10 ODIs left. I think the 15 is set. But Markram, Klaasen, Pretorius, Phehlukwayo & Morris are on their toes.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Can I just say...Dale . 5 months of sustained quality.

Seeing him with a brand new cherry on Boxing Day is the best present I'll receive

 

[Heboric]

10 ODIs left. I think the 15 is set. But Markram, Klaasen, Pretorius, Phehlukwayo & Morris are on their toes.

I think Pretorius' stock rose a little after todays game

 

[Dendarii]

I wonder if Morris not playing today is an indication that he's seen purely as a backup for the strike bowlers. It does make sense - it's not really clear who the next best player would be (I guess Dala and Paterson might be the other main contenders), so because there'll be a drop in quality whoever gets chosen you might as well pick the one who's the best batsman. That would mean that Phehlukwayo and Pretorius would be the two options for the allrounder spot.

 

[StephenZA]

So then... when Duminy comes back does he bat 5 or 6?

Or are we dropping Markram and have Faf and Duminy at 3/4 leaving 5/6 for Miller and Klaasens. Don't like this option.

 

[SeamUp]

So then... when Duminy comes back does he bat 5 or 6?

Or are we dropping Markram and have Faf and Duminy at 3/4 leaving 5/6 for Miller and Klaasens. Don't like this option.

Think it will be the latter but not sure if JP is back for Pakistan series so Markram may get a chance to convince.

Still not sure Pretorius did any more than what Phehlukwayo has been doing. We still haven't seen him contribute with the bat and he hasn't scored runs in a long time.

 

[Dendarii]

Still not sure Pretorius did any more than what Phehlukwayo has been doing. We still haven't seen him contribute with the bat and he hasn't scored runs in a long time.

I agree. Phehlukwayo has been a regular in the side for some time now, so it would have probably taken a lot for Pretorius to supplant him. So all we really have learned is that Pretorius can be a suitable replacement for Phehlukwayo should the need arise.