Guppy out. Good time for Phillips to have bene making runs, reduces chance of Worker being called up ...
Guptill out of Pakistan series with calf injury - ESPNcricinfo
Guptill out of Pakistan series with calf injury - ESPNcricinfo
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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
TheBrand
First Class Debutant
Tend to agree with this, although I dont mind giving Phillips a hoon at the top in the ODIs. Definitely think he's a good long term option especially if Munro shits the bed again.
NZ A game on currently
https://scoring.nzc.nz/livescoring/match2b6f8308-bb35-4889-bfe5-c05ee32d9c88/scorecard.aspx
For some reason Ravindra is down as batting at 10
https://scoring.nzc.nz/livescoring/match2b6f8308-bb35-4889-bfe5-c05ee32d9c88/scorecard.aspx
For some reason Ravindra is down as batting at 10
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Lost few wickets at the top our lads. There's no live video on YouTube like they did for t20s.
Honestly we need to learn fair bit from how the sub continent teams show confidence in their young lads. Our guys have no idea. Honestly batting Ravindra at no. 10 is a no brainer. I guess they're wasting his time. Should release him to firebirds he'll get good experience. What's the point in taking him to UAE he's barely played. I can understand if he isn't good enough yet but what's the point in taking an opener and batting him so low.
Similar point I make about Finn Allen, he's certainly good enough to bat in the top 4
If they fail so what everyone does. You have to give them their due if you pick them. They've made a mistake picking Ravindra for A I feel.
Honestly we need to learn fair bit from how the sub continent teams show confidence in their young lads. Our guys have no idea. Honestly batting Ravindra at no. 10 is a no brainer. I guess they're wasting his time. Should release him to firebirds he'll get good experience. What's the point in taking him to UAE he's barely played. I can understand if he isn't good enough yet but what's the point in taking an opener and batting him so low.
Similar point I make about Finn Allen, he's certainly good enough to bat in the top 4
If they fail so what everyone does. You have to give them their due if you pick them. They've made a mistake picking Ravindra for A I feel.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Ross Taylor sets sights on 100 Tests - ESPNcricinfo
Taylor targeting 100 tests which means he's probably on board for next year's boxing day test.
Taylor targeting 100 tests which means he's probably on board for next year's boxing day test.
Gnske
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He better get there. And I hope there's a ceremony on the day where he is given the opportunity to spit in Brendon McCullum's mouth and face.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Taylor can easily play another 4 years of he's fit enough. He's kind of under rated.
Meanwhile Lockie Ferguson nearly won the game for NZ A. Pakistani player rizwan played a phenomenal innings of unbeaten 100 and put 40+ runs partnership for the last wicket with the no 11 scoring all of 3 runs.
Tastle has bowled and batted well.
Corey has not been able to produce a big knock yet on the tour but I'm guessing he'll make the cut.
Here's short highlights, that's some good pace and bounce by Lockie.
P.S: I know it's only couple of shots but Ravindra's pulls are as good as one can play. There is lot of promise but is NZ Cricket sensible? Should have had him playing first class and ford trophy. Would have been great for firebirds.
Meanwhile Lockie Ferguson nearly won the game for NZ A. Pakistani player rizwan played a phenomenal innings of unbeaten 100 and put 40+ runs partnership for the last wicket with the no 11 scoring all of 3 runs.
Tastle has bowled and batted well.
Corey has not been able to produce a big knock yet on the tour but I'm guessing he'll make the cut.
Here's short highlights, that's some good pace and bounce by Lockie.
P.S: I know it's only couple of shots but Ravindra's pulls are as good as one can play. There is lot of promise but is NZ Cricket sensible? Should have had him playing first class and ford trophy. Would have been great for firebirds.
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straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Scorecard is on the NZC website.
Highlights
Agree that it's absurd to bat Ravindra down at 8 even in a side with lots of batting.
The way Ferguson knocked over the lower order near the end of those highlights is impressive.
I also really like how both Sodhi and Tastle are shaping up - Sodhi's bowling has really matured and he seems a lot more sure of himself, helped imo by the T20 cricket he's played in various parts of the world, while Tastle seems to be in good form too.
Highlights
Agree that it's absurd to bat Ravindra down at 8 even in a side with lots of batting.
The way Ferguson knocked over the lower order near the end of those highlights is impressive.
I also really like how both Sodhi and Tastle are shaping up - Sodhi's bowling has really matured and he seems a lot more sure of himself, helped imo by the T20 cricket he's played in various parts of the world, while Tastle seems to be in good form too.
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Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
The snap and bounce evident in those late innings Lockheed wickets is encouraging. Looked a bit sharper than the normal 138 kmh average offerings he's produced in seasons past.
The temptation will be to go with a finger spinner and a wrist spinner in the test side, but at this point I'm thinking the Tastle/Sodhi double-act is the goer (would lengthen the batting too).
The temptation will be to go with a finger spinner and a wrist spinner in the test side, but at this point I'm thinking the Tastle/Sodhi double-act is the goer (would lengthen the batting too).
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
You were right. We're all old ****s now.
Moss
International Captain
Good to see a bunch of limited overs options keeping themselves in the frame, Ferguson looks a better selection than Milne (based on recent history, though from the domestic thread it seems Milne has looked really good) for the first change bowling option. Would be great if one of the batsmen (Phillips/Young/Worker) had a breakout series.
The side really needs an allrounder though, or a batsman who can bowl tidily at least. CdG's and Anderson's bowling not strong enough to plug a hole, ditto with the batting for Santner and Astle. Munro and Worker don't really have the bowling chops by the look of it. Maybe Ravindra is that player? Wishful thinking that he'd be fast-tracked by the World Cup I know.
The side really needs an allrounder though, or a batsman who can bowl tidily at least. CdG's and Anderson's bowling not strong enough to plug a hole, ditto with the batting for Santner and Astle. Munro and Worker don't really have the bowling chops by the look of it. Maybe Ravindra is that player? Wishful thinking that he'd be fast-tracked by the World Cup I know.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Santner is pretty good mate, he can surely bat. Just needs to bat a bit higher and needs to be given some decent time in the middle.
What's worrisome is every country (including the West Indies) are now producing good young top order batters but we haven't since Tom Latham in 2012. Tom was about 20 when he first played ODI and he has done commendably. He's about 25-26 I guess. For one to settle down and have long career they should effectively need to be playing at international level when they're about 22-23 years of age. Glen Phillips will come good in T20 format but what of one day and test format? NZ has to get a lot more courageous and push for capable young ones. We are so far behind in this area compared to other nations.
Ravindra and Finn Allen should have comfortably played far more first class and List A cricket by now. Just because they were young they were not picked or encouraged. The likes of Sam Curran, Prithvi Shaw, Rishab Pant, Hetmyer, Renshaw, Ollie Pope are all picked based on their ability and they have delivered to some extent. Australia traditionally don't pick young ones and last thing is we should follow them. We need to encourage youth if they are capable as we just don't have depth in batting. We shouldn't expect them to win matches from day one but they should be given a long rope, give them first preference and should be playing as much as possible. I see they took Ravindra to UAE, played him in a warm up game and rested for 3 t20s. They played him yesterday and batted him at no.8 What's the point? We already have very good left arm spinner in Santner followed by Ajaz. Both probably are capable of playing 8 years of cricket easily at the top level. Rather than throw Ravindra in the deep end and see if he has the ticker or ability to deliver they cushion him at no.8 with the bat. This is NZ cricket thinking at its best. They have taken a capable young batsman and trying to turn him into a slogger. We have enough of those already that aren't going anywhere. Besides none of the seasoned batters on the A tour are setting the world on fire with the bat. They are still huffing and puffing to few starts. These are the guys that are supposed to be facing the heat, they have been around the circuit for a very long time.
Ravindra will likely miss out the entire ford trophy by the time he's back from UAE by the sound of it. The A tour will have costed the poor lad 2 first class games and about 10 list A games which would have helped him gain much needed experience at a higher level. The worse thing is he will learn to slog, lose confidence and mess up his batting. Thankfully he played couple of proper shot looking at that highlights clip. I still believe he's probably better than majority of the batters on the A tour. Our guys have no clue honestly. Probably suits their grand scheme of having 2-3 test matches every season. I wonder who are the coaches that are foreseeing this tour.
Amidst all of this the good thing is our bowling stock is stronger than ever. Depth in fast bowling we have is staggering. We could comfortably replace our top 3-4 pace bowlers and still not miss them. I think we have very good chance against Pakistan. BCs combination is looking great. Not sure about the world cup though.
Moss
International Captain
Yes, my post about needing an allrounder was mainly with the World Cup in mind and the balance of the ODI side in its current state (Santner's batting seemed to have jumped a level during the England series admittedly). But from a bigger picture perspective, completely agree on the batting stocks, or rather the mismanagement of it.
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
I disagree.
While NZC, and the major associations, have many flaws. I don't think a fear of playing youth is one of them.
Finn Allen getting a bit of a taste of it at 18, and then a contracted player at 19 and likely to pay the full domestic season is totally acceptable to me. Similar for Ravindra (except he didn't get a little taste last year). I'm assuming 18 year old Ravindra, who has a wellington contract, will get a good amount of provincial cricket this year.
That's really only 1 year behind Kane Williamson progress at the same age - who is a once in a generation talent.
At the weaker province (Otago). 17 year olds (Duffy and Finnie) making the volts is relatively un-remarkable.
TBH. If you are talking about being in a position to promote to blackcap level in their late teens, Then long term I think they'll just be burnt out 2 years earlier than the guy who starts at 20, 21.
But I wholeheartedly agree that to have young guys in a position at age 20/21 to elevate to that blackcaps, that they need a decent amount of provincial cricket in their late teens. But as I say, a taste at 18, a full season starting from 19 is OK with me.
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nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Fair enough but the point you are making is about selection and I'm making is about providing proper opportunities. Two different things to be honest. Selecting doesn't mean anything if you don't encourage them. All of the names you have mentioned above have been given a short rope meanwhile near 30 or 30+ year old cricketer even just doing ok is given a long rope. This is where I feel we are wrong. Give them a go at the positions they deserve, why fear so much? If they have what it takes they will do fine otherwise you can always work on them to make them better. What's the point in having a promising young batsman at no.6/no.8 for few years and then figuring out he can't deliver at the top? It's a fact we haven't produced any good young batting talent since the days of Kane Williamson (barring Tom as I mentioned above). There must certainly be a reason. They couldn't have all been rubbish. Finn Allen should be batting at no.4 or even no.3 by Aces. Ravindra should be opening for NZ A (given his selection but I do think it was stupid to select him if they weren't confident of his batting) and not batting at no.8. Josh Finnie should be batting at no.3 or no.4. No point hiding these guys if they are picked on merit. You think Kane Williamson is a once a generation player and I think there are more like him coming. If it's not happening then we need to work out why is that not happening?
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