DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

[Days of Grace]

Very much so. Interesting to compare him to Botham imo. Highly skilled cricketer was Cairns.

If you look at his career record, he didn't perform so well against Australia with the ball. His peak either side of the turn of the century is up there with most of the great allrounders, though.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.82

Bishan Singh Bedi (India) 680

Quality Points: 604
Career Points: 76

Career: 1966-1979
Wickets: 266
Gold Performances: 1
5/37 vs. Australia at Delhi 1969
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 8

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 27.86 (28.71) 72.35 (80.32) 4.36
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1972-1978): 24.57 65.58 5.88
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 32.05 75.87 3.70
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 29.33 72.43 4.27

 

[Flem274*]

good to see hazlewood getting his props as well. i feel like he gets forgotten on cw despite being the best current aussie bowler

 

[stephen]

good to see hazlewood getting his props as well. i feel like he gets forgotten on cw despite being the best current aussie bowler

He's not as good as Cummins or Starc really.

 

[Flem274*]

correct he's better

 

[Singh767]

What is the in brackets numbers in the Overall Average/Strike-Rate/?

 

[Days of Grace]

What is the in brackets numbers in the Overall Average/Strike-Rate/?

The original averages and strike-rates before adjustment.

No.81

Geoff Lawson (Australia) 681

Quality Points: 625
Career Points: 56

Career: 1980-1989
Wickets: 180
Gold Performances: 2
6/47 vs. England at Brisbane 1982 (16.92)
8/112 vs. West Indies at Adelaide 1984 (16.80)
Silver Performances: 7
Bronze Performances: 4

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.97 (30.56) 59.60 (61.77) 4.63
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1981-1985): 25.74 50.55 5.32
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 32.40 64.02 4.09
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.07 51.69 5.22

 

[Flametree]

Seriously confused by Kaneria's rating. Seems to be getting a huge boost from silver performances - am I right that the 12 silver performances add 24 points to his overall rating?. So inconsistency is highly rewarded. Better to take 0-100 + 6-100 in a match vs 3-100 + 3-100? Is that correct?

Are tests in the UAE counted as Home or Away for Pakistan bowlers?

His average by opposition :
Australia 34@42
Bangladesh 29@16
England 29@49
India 43@41
New Zealand 22@28
South Africa 36@30
Sri Lanka 35@33
West Indies 28@36

Even with the good result against South Africa (I guess you can't factor in "good sides in general but crap against spin" into the mix...), it looks like he does far worse against Australia, India, England, South Africa (average around 40) than against Bang/NZ/SL/WI (avg 28). I'd be interested in seeing the unadjusted average in the "against quality opposition" line to understand how much a factor quality of opposition is.

 

[Starfighter]

Lawson's too low. Should be top 20


I'll be interested to see how the adjusted averages and strike rates work with some players and the conditions. Will someone like Haze get a bigger bump in average than Anderson due to playing a lot of tests in much tougher conditions? Or Davidson's strike rate compared to Trueman's?

 

[stephen]

I seriously think Davidson will surprise with his ranking. It'll either be way higher or lower than we expect.

 

[morgieb]

correct he's better

Haze has had the better career than Cummins as things stand, but he really hasn't bowled better since Cummins came back from injury.

If it was the 2016/17 Hazlewood, though.....

 

[smash84]

I seriously think Davidson will surprise with his ranking. It'll either be way higher or lower than we expect.

where do you expect him to rank?

 

[Hicheal Michael]

Hazlewood's stats don't justify the hype imo.

 

[stephen]

where do you expect him to rank?

I expect that Davo would sit somewhere around 15-20 on most people's lists. I expect him to come in either really high (45+) or really low (top 10) with this analysis.

He didn't really have too many notable performances (tied test notwithstanding) but he had a phenomenal average and a decent strike rate for his era.

 

[stephen]

Hazlewood's stats don't justify the hype imo.

His last two seasons have really dragged him down. There was a brief time where it really did look like he was the new McGrath.

Right now I'd have him behind a fit Pattinson, Cummins and Starc. Pattinson being the best of the lot if his form is anything like what it was before he broke down last time.

 

[Days of Grace]

Seriously confused by Kaneria's rating. Seems to be getting a huge boost from silver performances - am I right that the 12 silver performances add 24 points to his overall rating?. So inconsistency is highly rewarded. Better to take 0-100 + 6-100 in a match vs 3-100 + 3-100? Is that correct?

Are tests in the UAE counted as Home or Away for Pakistan bowlers?

His average by opposition :
Australia 34@42
Bangladesh 29@16
England 29@49
India 43@41
New Zealand 22@28
South Africa 36@30
Sri Lanka 35@33
West Indies 28@36

Even with the good result against South Africa (I guess you can't factor in "good sides in general but crap against spin" into the mix...), it looks like he does far worse against Australia, India, England, South Africa (average around 40) than against Bang/NZ/SL/WI (avg 28). I'd be interested in seeing the unadjusted average in the "against quality opposition" line to understand how much a factor quality of opposition is.

Regarding great performances, they are worth considerably less than overall career wickets and points per innings (i.e. consistency). You can view great performances as a tie-breaker between bowlers rated very similarly.

Kaneria averaged 38.97 unadjusted against quality opposition, but he bowled in an era of flat wickets and against many great batsmen, so it is adjusted downwards a lot. Matches played in the U.A.E. count as non-home for Pakistani bowlers, so perhaps that could be changed in the future.

And, in reply to Starfighter, yes, match conditions do play a part in adjusting the averages and strike-rates.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.80

Saqlain Mushtaq (Pakistan) 681

Quality Points: 622
Career Points: 60

Career: 1995-2004
Wickets: 208
Gold Performances: 1
8/164 vs. England at Lahore 2000 (16.89)
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 6

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.67 (29.84) 69.32 (67.64) 4.63
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1999-2002): 24.78 65.33 5.14
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.83 69.94 4.96
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 27.43 64.82 5.48

 

[Starfighter]

His last two seasons have really dragged him down. There was a brief time where it really did look like he was the new McGrath.

Right now I'd have him behind a fit Pattinson, Cummins and Starc. Pattinson being the best of the lot if his form is anything like what it was before he broke down last time.

I'd only have him ahead of Starc in dead subcontinental conditions.

 

[Days of Grace]

No.79

Stuart MacGill (Australia) 682

Quality Points: 623
Career Points: 59

Career: 1998-2008
Wickets: 199
Gold Performances: 2
7/50 vs. England at Sydney 1999 (16.04)
7/104 vs. West Indies at Sydney 2001 (15.78)
Silver Performances: 3
Bronze Performances: 6

Just a reminder that I don't include stats from the Australia vs. World XI test from 2005.

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 28.43 (29.93) 58.73 (55.74) 4.68
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1998-2003): 25.23 54.34 5.50
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 30.54 58.63 4.39
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 31.67 61.41 4.35

 

[Bolo]

Lawson's too low. Should be top 20


I'll be interested to see how the adjusted averages and strike rates work with some players and the conditions. Will someone like Haze get a bigger bump in average than Anderson due to playing a lot of tests in much tougher conditions? Or Davidson's strike rate compared to Trueman's?

Home conditions are always going to be a bit of an issue for a statistical analysis for someone like Hazelwood. The strength of the AUS bowlers for his career are effectively going to drag him down if you look at a simple metric like average or strike rate. Conditions are statistically not as tough for bowlers as they are in reality because the AUS bowlers have good home averages, and they are taking most of the wickets. AUS still ends up a statistically easy place to bat, but bowlers are only getting partial credit.

I'm assuming this is too complicated to be accounted for here?