• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

DoG's Top 100 Test Bowlers Countdown Thread 100-1

The Battlers Prince

International Vice-Captain
Although I disagree with statistical analysis as a sole judge, I’m always fascinated by your countdowns DoG.
Looking forward to the rest of the list
 

Brian Lara

School Boy/Girl Captain
No.95

Danish Kaneria (Pakistan) 655

Quality Points: 579
Career Points: 76




Career: 2000-2010
Wickets: 261
Gold Performances: 1
7/118 vs. Sri Lanka at Karachi 2004 (16.67)
Silver Performances: 12
Bronze Performances: 4

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 31.01 (34.80) 69.35 (67.80) 4.56
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2000-2005): 27.42 61.36 5.16
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 32.17 69.26 4.24
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 33.41 73.98 4.32
DoG, can you explain how kaneria came out as level as Lyon despite being outperformed significantly in average and strike rate? What was the levelling factor here? Just really curious to understand the rankings a bit more.

Edit: also, 12 silver performances is a hell of an achievement. Do number of overs come into a performance rating at all?
 
Last edited:

Bolo

State Captain
Interesting start. Im loving the gold performances feature.

The overall/peak/away averages dont interest me so much but the quality opposition average does.
Different strokes for different folks. Overall and away (plus quality adjusted) averages are what really count to me.

Gold performances are an interesting novelty- fun to look at, but wouldn't factor them into assessing how good a player is- there's every chance they are a negative.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
I hope DoG can do another list after this one ranking bowlers on the basis of how good they would have been if they were Australian. That's the only measure that matters :ph34r:
 
Last edited:

Days of Grace

International Captain
DoG, can you explain how kaneria came out as level as Lyon despite being outperformed significantly in average and strike rate? What was the levelling factor here? Just really curious to understand the rankings a bit more.

Edit: also, 12 silver performances is a hell of an achievement. Do number of overs come into a performance rating at all?
Points per innings for Kaneria were significately higher (or wickets per innings)
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Different strokes for different folks. Overall and away (plus quality adjusted) averages are what really count to me.

Gold performances are an interesting novelty- fun to look at, but wouldn't factor them into assessing how good a player is- there's every chance they are a negative.
Um, what do you mean that gold performances are a negative?
 

Bolo

State Captain
Um, what do you mean that gold performances are a negative?
An outstanding performance will be counterbalanced by below par performances elsewhere. Effectively it rewards inconsistency. As a general rule, I think consistency is preferable. It's hard to say it holds true for all players though, and your method likely gives less problems than something like 5 wicket hauls. Maybe it outweighs the inconsistency issue; I'm not sure.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
If you look at the orginal post of this thread you’ll find that overall career/non-home/quality opposition performances FAR outweigh outstanding performances (which will anyway be factoted into averages/strike-rates/PPI).
 

Bolo

State Captain
It's a comment on preferences more than anything. I'd possibly like to see a zero weight, or possibly a negative one (unclear to me because your system is better than simple metrics). Nufan would probably like to see a higher one. You can't satisfy both of us, and it's not clear that it would be better to satisfy either of us.

Anyway, including it definitely makes the countdown far more interesting, so I'm glad it's in there.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Different strokes for different folks. Overall and away (plus quality adjusted) averages are what really count to me.

Gold performances are an interesting novelty- fun to look at, but wouldn't factor them into assessing how good a player is- there's every chance they are a negative.
Just to clarify, overall stats are so important, I just meant I find it less interesting to read and not important when working out DOGs rankings.

The quality average and gold performances gives me insight as to why DOGs ranking is the way it is.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
No.92

Peter Siddle (Australia) 665

Quality Points: 606
Career Points: 58




Career: 2008-2016
Wickets: 211
Gold Performances: 1
6/54 vs. England at Brisbane 2010
Silver Performances: 6
Bronze Performances: 3

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.83 (29.92) 62.38 (61.34) 3.69
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2010-2013): 22.89 53.27 4.66
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 29.30 67.36 3.43
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 25.44 58.68 4.09

Tried to post an image of Siddle's heart but the sheer amount of data would have crashed the forum.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
No.91

Hedley Verity (England) 666

Quality Points: 624
Career Points: 42




Career: 1931-1939
Wickets: 144
Gold Performances: 2
7/61 vs. Australia at Lord's 1934 (16.53)
8/43 vs. Australia at Lord's 1934 (18.92)
Silver Performances: 2
Bronze Performances: 1

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 23.65 (24.38) 70.62 (77.59) 3.69
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (1931-1937): 21.52 61.16 4.03
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.29 80.27 3.67
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 25.14 71.15 3.74

Like other forum posters, I expected Verity to finish higher. A great set of averages but a high strike-rate and relatively low PPI means that he only ranks at no.91.
 
Last edited:

Days of Grace

International Captain
No.90

Neil Wagner (New Zealand) 667

Quality Points: 627
Career Points: 40




Career: 2012-
Wickets: 149
Gold Performances: 1
7/39 vs. West Indies at Wellington 2017 (16.94)
Silver Performances: 2
Bronze Performances: 3

Overall Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.38 (28.26) 55.69 (52.97) 4.13
50 Innings Peak Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings (2013-2017): 23.80 50.52 4.53
Non-Home Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.37 60.96 3.46
Quality Opposition Average/Strike-Rate/Points Per Innings: 26.41 55.65 4.24
 
Last edited:

Top