*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[Cruxdude]

Watching Mo bowl just reinforced how bad Ashwin was in this test

 

[Chrish]

Smith isn't way better but even with kohli going through a purple patch, he still averages 3 runs less than Smith away. Oh and overall Smith out averages kohli by 7 runs. That's akin to the difference in average between Sachin and lara at the end of the 90s. Nobody thought lara was better than sachin even with Lara '99.

You do have to realize though that Smith plays majority of his innings in Australia that has inflated batting averages. Kohli and Willimson piled up tons of runs over there as well last time they played. On the other hand India have truly prepared some minfields over the course of past few years. So that 7 run difference is somewhat understandable.

PS I do rate Smith higher but the gap is getting thinner and thinner. In fact I have already seen some folks who now rate kohli higher.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You do have to realize though that Smith plays majority of his innings in Australia that has inflated batting averages. Kohli and Willimson piled up tons of runs over there as well last time they played. On the other hand India have truly prepared some minfields over the course of past few years. So that 7 run difference is somewhat understandable.

PS I do rate Smith higher but the gap is getting thinner and thinner. In fact I have already seen some folks who now rate kohli higher.

No, please don't perpetuate this ignorance.

Before last year Smith averaged about the same home and away (~60)

ftr I am one of the people who rates Kohli higher than Smith now

 

[Larwood's_boots]

It's that man mo' again

Seems to get one great pitch in england every year and goes on a tear, and that justifies his inclusion for the winter tours. I wen't out to Oz for the ashes and he was abject, and I suspect that others in the queue(Leach, Bess etc) would have been just as good this test and maybe even more effective in Sri Lanka/windies.

 

[Daemon]

Kohli averaged 8 against Smith's 100 when they played each other which kinda seals the deal for me at this point.

 

[Larwood's_boots]

Kohli averaged 8 against Smith's 100 when they played each other which kinda seals the deal for me at this point.

Smith's crazy patient hundred in the ashes is the most impressive thing I've seen in years batting wise. Kohli better across all three formats though.

 

[Chrish]

No, please don't perpetuate this ignorance.

Before last year Smith averaged about the same home and away (~60)

ftr I am one of the people who rates Kohli higher than Smith now

Why is it ignorance? I don’t see there is anything illogical about what I said. Australian wickets for past few years have been batting paradise, which admittedly should result in more credit given to their bowlers

 

[jimmy101]

All aboard the Mooen bandwagon! (again)

 

[Burgey]

You do have to realize though that Smith plays majority of his innings in Australia that has inflated batting averages. Kohli and Willimson piled up tons of runs over there as well last time they played. On the other hand India have truly prepared some minfields over the course of past few years. So that 7 run difference is somewhat understandable.

PS I do rate Smith higher but the gap is getting thinner and thinner. In fact I have already seen some folks who now rate kohli higher.

It's understandable that would happen, given a lot of people have memories like a cistern - once they've flushed the latest day's offering, they're incapable of storing what went on just a short time ago.

 

[Burgey]

Why is it ignorance? I don’t see there is anything illogical about what I said. Australian wickets for past few years have been batting paradise, which admittedly should result in more credit given to their bowlers

You'd have a point if:
a. Smith didn't score runs everywhere and his average was padded by a home average >>>>>>>>>>> his away average, but he does and it isn't; and
b. Strangely, these pitches don't seem to be paradise for most visiting batsmen.

(b) probably has more to do with just how generally **** teams are at touring these days, while it also makes (a) such a factor in Smith's favour. Bloke was just a run machine for four years. Wasn't pretty, but just turned the focus of his Aspy obsession into churning out scores.

 

[cnerd123]

Nuh uh, you don’t get to claim predictive genius when you were all pissing and moaning and relentless negativity after Lords.

Fight me, ****s.

I was banned after Lord's, ****

I absolutely can and will claim predictive genius here, thanks.

 

[Chrish]

It's understandable that would happen, given a lot of people have memories like a cistern - once they've flushed the latest day's offering, they're incapable of storing what went on just a short time ago.

Not at all. Kohli has been beast at home for a while now. Only doubt people had was how he will do overseas; especially in England. So, it’s not based on short term memory.

Kohli had torrid record in one-on- one home series against Smith but then Smith failed in last SA tour while facing much easier wickets. As I mentioned, I would still pick Smith first for my Xi but don’t agree with comments like he is far ahead of everyone else at this point.

 

[Slifer]

S Waugh had better record than Lara and nobody thought he was a better batsman.

That was marginal. Everyone thought srt was well ahead of bcl at the end of the 90s....fact

 

[Burgey]

I was banned after Lord's, ****

I absolutely can and will claim predictive genius here, thanks.

Self praise is no praise at all. The only genius you possess is for **** posting.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why is it ignorance? I don’t see there is anything illogical about what I said. Australian wickets for past few years have been batting paradise, which admittedly should result in more credit given to their bowlers

Really? You're entire comment was based Smith's batting and the affect of Australian wickets on it, yet the affect of "flat Australian wickets" on Smith's batting is demonstrably not much at all

 

[Slifer]

You do have to realize though that Smith plays majority of his innings in Australia that has inflated batting averages. Kohli and Willimson piled up tons of runs over there as well last time they played. On the other hand India have truly prepared some minfields over the course of past few years. So that 7 run difference is somewhat understandable.

PS I do rate Smith higher but the gap is getting thinner and thinner. In fact I have already seen some folks who now rate kohli higher.

Sigh last time out in

Coincidentally, Smith actually averages more away from home than Kohli. As a matter of fact, the only place where Smith really stinks it up is in Bangladesh. And about the minefields in India didn't Smith put India to the sword last time he was there or am I missing something?? Inflated batting averages in Australia maybe, but most players do play better at home than they do away that's all...fact even kohli

 

[quincywagstaff]

I've noticed some English cricketing journos getting complacent about the English side's constant home Test success in the last 15 years (mainly because of their struggles away from home) but it never should be taken for granted, especially as how bad they were in the 1990s and especially 1980s.

England lost more home Test series in the 1986-1989 than they have from 2002-2018. Of the 4 home Test series they've lost in the 02-18 period, I think 3 of those were during Peter Moores' two brief stints as coach.

 

[Chrish]

Really? You're entire comment was based Smith's batting and the affect of Australian wickets on it, yet the affect of "flat Australian wickets" on Smith's batting is demonstrably not much at all

Let's see..

Smith's home average in 29 games: 77.25

Smith's away/neutral average in 35 games: 50.96

Smith's total average in 64 games: 61.37

Now, is the effect of home advantage here pretty significant, or "demonstrably not much at all" ?? I will leave it to individual to decide.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Sigh last time out in

Coincidentally, Smith actually averages more away from home than Kohli. As a matter of fact, the only place where Smith really stinks it up is in Bangladesh. And about the minefields in India didn't Smith put India to the sword last time he was there or am I missing something?? Inflated batting averages in Australia maybe, but most players do play better at home than they do away that's all...fact even kohli

Bangladesh was only 2 Test matches tbf. Smith tends to go missing (relatively speaking) in series he plays after big series. This is just a theory but given how much of his success is based on mental strength I think he focuses so hard on the big series (eg. India 2017, Ashes 2017/18) and does so well, that when the next (less important) series rolls around (eg. BD 2017, SA 2018) he sort of phones it in.

As far as his batting in "minefields in India", I don't think you're really missing anything but the pitches where he made big runs weren't that bad, except for the first Test where he made a 2nd innings hundred on a dustbowl, and even then he was dropped like 4 times IIRC and benefited from a lot of luck

 

[TheJediBrah]

Let's see..

Smith's home average in 29 games: 77.25

Smith's away/neutral average in 35 games: 50.96

Smith's total average in 64 games: 61.37

Now, is the effect of home advantage here pretty significant, or "demonstrably not much at all" ?? I will leave it to individual to decide.

I didn't realise how high is home average was though, granted it's definitely a bigger difference than I thought lol

As mentioned though, almost everyone averages more at home then away, and Smith's away average is still comfortably higher than Kohli, Root or Williamson, so I still don't really think that "flat Australian wickets" should be given much weighting, if any, when comparing the players.