Why does Pakistan traditionally produce better fast bowlers than India?

[cnerd123]

Kapil scored more runs per innings than Imran the bowling allrounder. Fact.
Imran had equal or more chances, Still he scored less. Fact.
Kapil Scored more centuries per innings. Fact.
Kapil scored more 50s per innings. Fact.
There are multiple atg batting performances in Kapils records. Fact.

Only the last two of these two is actually true lmao.

IK's RPI is 30.2 over his career, KD's is 28.5
IK scored a century every 21 innings, KD one every 23
Wtf is 'equal or more chances'? IK facing more balls and scoring slower? That's weird ass rationale, by this logic Sehwag is the GOAT batsman after Bradman.

 

[Prince EWS]

That's weird ass rationale, by this logic Sehwag is the GOAT batsman after Bradman.

Don't give him ideas.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Try clicking on it. Here's the numbers in case you're wondering

	Span	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
unfiltered	1971-1992	88	3807	136	37.69	6	362	8/58	22.81	23	28	0	14.88	Profile
filtered	1979-1989	54	2377	135*	41.70	5	250	8/58	18.37	18	17	0	23.32

I've simply filtered Imran's stats from when he began his golden run until he stopped taking a full bowling workload. Kinda destroys your claim about Imran being a mere 'bowling' allrounder, against your own more disingenuous slice which includes the part of his career when he was more or less a specialist bowler. Kapil hasn't a single similar run in his record.

Ok, now we are checking peaks.

Imran
54 tests 73 innings 2377 runs
5 x 100, 12 x50
41.7 avg, 32.5 runs per innings
100/innings - 14.6, 50/innings - 6

Kapil
Between 82-87
50 tests, 70 innings, 2305 runs
4 x 100, 14 x 50
36 avg, 33 runs per innings
100/innings - 17.5, 50/innings - 5

Kapil still scores quicker and more runs per innings. Also more 50 plus scores
Changes nothing

Imran more 100s, and longer peak.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Only the last two of these two is actually true lmao.

IK's RPI is 30.2 over his career, KD's is 28.5
IK scored a century every 21 innings, KD one every 23
Wtf is 'equal or more chances'? IK facing more balls and scoring slower? That's weird ass rationale, by this logic Sehwag is the GOAT batsman after Bradman.

Excluding Imran' s specialist batsman phase. Where he was no longer a bowling allrounder to compare with Kapil, Hadlee, Botham.. Etc

Yes, if only Sehwag was as good in run making in all conditions as the top tier batsmen.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

You can't just make up numbers and complain when people don't go along with it. There's close to a 7 run difference in averages.

Just picking Kapil's best period and comparing it to Imran's worst period to try and prove your point is hilarious

Kapil's best period = his entire career
Imran's worst period = when he was actually an Atg bowling allrounder

Seriously ????

So which Imran you are going to pick in alltime 11?
1.Atg bowler + handy batsman
2.Specialist batsman + support bowler
3. Never existed combo of atg bowler + 37avg bat

Or at what point of time, Imran was better than Kapil both with ball and bat?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Don't give him ideas.

If Sehwag scored like Tendulkar everywhere at 80 strike rate, then no doubt he is the 2nd best ever by a distance.

 

[cnerd123]

"Kapil Dev is a better batsman if you ignore when Imran Khan was a good batsman"

Okay.

It's been pretty clearly shown that there was a stretch in Imran's career where he averages 42 with the bat and 18 with the ball. During Kapil Dev's 'peak' as a batsman (the 50 test stretch Pap has selected) he averaged 30 with the ball.

You cannot argue that IKP wasn't a good batsman at the same time as being an ATG bowler, and then pick Kapil's peak as a batsman when he was basically 5th bowler quality.

Khan's the better batsman, bowler and allrounder.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

"Kapil Dev is a better batsman if you ignore when Imran Khan was a good batsman"

Okay.

It's been pretty clearly shown that there was a stretch in Imran's career where he averages 42 with the bat and 18 with the ball. During Kapil Dev's 'peak' as a batsman (the 50 test stretch Pap has selected) he averaged 30 with the ball.

You cannot argue that IKP wasn't a good batsman at the same time as being an ATG bowler, and then pick Kapil's peak as a batsman when he was basically 5th bowler quality.

Khan's the better batsman, bowler and allrounder.

What?
I didn't pick Kapil's peak.. I compared Kapil's entire career with Imran's entire career as bowling allrounder (excluded last 20% when he was a specialist batsman)

And Kapil is still better batsman for me, even if you include all 88 tests of Imran.
Because there is not much difference in stats except for Imran's inflated avg and Kapil's extra ordinary strike rate.

 

[ankitj]

PFK, about time you gave up on this. It's not making much sense.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

PFK, about time you gave up on this. It's not making much sense.

Yes I just realized, I was arguing with guys like starfighter who actually rated Chris Cairns above Kapil both as batsman and bowler. Sigh.

 

[Starfighter]

Yes I just realized, I was arguing with guys like starfighter who actually rated Chris Cairns above Kapil both as batsman and bowler. Sigh.

Can you not make **** up please? Point to where in this thread I rated Chris Cairns higher than Kapil.

 

[marc71178]

Excluding Imran' s specialist batsman phase. Where he was no longer a bowling allrounder to compare with Kapil, Hadlee, Botham.. Etc

But what was he doing if he wasn't ****ing batting in that phase?

How does what he does whilst batting not count to how good a batsman he was?

 

[Bolo]

I rank Cairns ahead when considering the 80% of his career that is most representative of what im saying

 

[TheJediBrah]

Kapil's best period = his entire career
Imran's worst period = when he was actually an Atg bowling allrounder

Seriously ????

So which Imran you are going to pick in alltime 11?
1.Atg bowler + handy batsman
2.Specialist batsman + support bowler
3. Never existed combo of atg bowler + 37avg bat

Or at what point of time, Imran was better than Kapil both with ball and bat?

This doesn't have any truth to it. Did you not see this:

Try clicking on it. Here's the numbers in case you're wondering

	Span	Mat	Runs	HS	Bat Av	100	Wkts	BBI	Bowl Av	5	Ct	St	Ave Diff
unfiltered	1971-1992	88	3807	136	37.69	6	362	8/58	22.81	23	28	0	14.88	Profile
filtered	1979-1989	54	2377	135*	41.70	5	250	8/58	18.37	18	17	0	23.32

I've simply filtered Imran's stats from when he began his golden run until he stopped taking a full bowling workload. Kinda destroys your claim about Imran being a mere 'bowling' allrounder, against your own more disingenuous slice which includes the part of his career when he was more or less a specialist bowler. Kapil hasn't a single similar run in his record.

Imran's best decade is far better than Kapil's as a batter and bowler. You are talking absolute ****

 

[Borges]

This doesn't have any truth to it. Did you not see this

No.

 

[Borges]

Imran's best decade is far better than Kapil's as a batter and bowler,

Yes.

 

[Borges]

You are talking absolute ****

No.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Can you not make **** up please? Point to where in this thread I rated Chris Cairns higher than Kapil.

Not in this thread.
Your ratings differ thread to thread?
http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...nk-these-18-all-rounders-batsmen-bowlers.html

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

But what was he doing if he wasn't ****ing batting in that phase?

How does what he does whilst batting not count to how good a batsman he was?

As a pure batsman, it counts.
Not when its a combination of bat and ball.

Ok.
For example
Mr. X
First 50 tests
000 runs, 300wkts at an avg of 20
Last 50 tests
5000 runs at 60 avg, 000 wkts

Total Career
100 tests, 5000 runs, 300wkts

Will you select Mr. X as your allrounder in an 11?

Here my argument is
Number 1
Kapil was better batsman when Imran was better bowler
And
Kapil was better bowler when Imran was better bat.

Number 2
Kapil was better batsman overall

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

This doesn't have any truth to it. Did you not see this:



Imran's best decade is far better than Kapil's as a batter and bowler. You are talking absolute ****

Its just peak stats
Kapil had better 50 test peak as a batsman than this 54.
Admittedly for a shorter period.