Best current test batting lineup

[TheJediBrah]

Hmm, i'm more trying to say that pace bowlers weren't completely out of the game, the fact that SL had 3 spinners playing probably says a lot about how SAs batsmen were coping with spin and also the quality of SLs available pace bowlers.

I'm taking issue mainly with the point that SL playing heaps of spinners and Lakmal barely bowling is evidence of extremely (or unnaturally) spin-friendly conditions, they were playing to their strengths and to the opposition weakness, conditions certainly played a part though yes. It made a 3 pronged spin attack viable, but not necessary, worth remembering that at no point during the series did SL put up a really good total, SA bowlers were on top throughout each first innings and only when they were downwards skiing in the 2nd innings with a big lead were they bleeding runs or lacking pressure, that was with a 2:3 spin to pace attack at galle and a 1:3 spin to pace attack at SSC

You're definitely correct in pointing out that there are other factors involved other than just a doctored pitch

 

[Maximas]

Yeah best thing about that series.

Ultimately, making conditions super bowler friendly does the home team no favours a lot of the time, if you lose the wrong toss you can find yourself batting against a weak attack that is lifted up by a shocking pitch (SL seamers in NZ 2014 for example) and their batsmen are often able to do just enough to pull off a win. Better batting wickets are more likely to expose the touring team if the home side can exploit the subtle demons in the pitch and their batsmen are good enough to negate them.

 

[SeamUp]

I remember Faf's comments saying that the warm-up pitch was totally different to the test pitch after the first test in Sri Lanka. He said it with a smile.

I don't think the SA team made any excuses but we definitely made a mistake only going in with 1 spinner in the 2nd test and Philander, KG, Steyn and Ngidi plugged away on very unresponsive pitches in those two tests.

Like the others say above SA and other non-Asian teams are pretty poor against spin at the moment but to think that those 2 test pitches offered much to our quicks then that is incorrect. Our more previous tours to Sri Lanka definitely offered more for our quicks.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ultimately, making conditions super bowler friendly does the home team no favours a lot of the time, if you lose the wrong toss you can find yourself batting against a weak attack that is lifted up by a shocking pitch (SL seamers in NZ 2014 for example) and their batsmen are often able to do just enough to pull off a win. Better batting wickets are more likely to expose the touring team if the home side can exploit the subtle demons in the pitch and their batsmen are good enough to negate them.

I've been wanting Aus to go back to really bouncy fast wickets for years for this reason. Greentops won't help us (except maybe against SA), they'll just bring sides with inferior fast bowlers into the game. But the wickets Aus have been churning out over the last 5 or so years have been disgraceful and don't help anyone. Who would want to be a fast bowler with the wickets we serve up?

 

[OverratedSanity]

and if you think the Ishant pitch was a green top then the definition of 'green' must've changed somewhere.

Are we talking about the same pitch here? I'm referring to the third test in 2015,it was one of the most seamer friendly pitches I've seen on the subcontinent in the last few years. This is not up for debate. I remember it that well because its literally the only seam friendly pitch where pujara has scored runs.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Starc managed to do ok as a quick in 2016 but IIRC I do't think that had much to do with the pitch helping him. It was largely reverse swinging yorkers and the like. He might have bowled a few off-cutters as well because of the pitch.

 

[Starfighter]

Are we talking about the same pitch here? I'm referring to the third test in 2015,it was one of the most seamer friendly pitches I've seen on the subcontinent in the last few years. This is not up for debate. I remember it that well because its literally the only seam friendly pitch where pujara has scored runs.

The highlights aren't available here but I recall a pitch with some interesting somewhat patchy grass and some moisture. Not really the thick, even covering of a proper English greentop. It certainly was congenial, influenced by the fact it had been newly relaid, but I don't really think it was a proper greentop like Hobart 2011, by far the greenest wicket I've seen in Australia. Perhaps my standards there are too strict.

 

[Maximas]

I've been wanting Aus to go back to really bouncy fast wickets for years for this reason. Greentops won't help us (except maybe against SA), they'll just bring sides with inferior fast bowlers into the game. But the wickets Aus have been churning out over the last 5 or so years have been disgraceful and don't help anyone. Who would want to be a fast bowler with the wickets we serve up?

I haven't seen a proper Australian summer's worth of pitches since the 2013/14 ashes

 

[Starfighter]

I've been wanting Aus to go back to really bouncy fast wickets for years for this reason. Greentops won't help us (except maybe against SA), they'll just bring sides with inferior fast bowlers into the game. But the wickets Aus have been churning out over the last 5 or so years have been disgraceful and don't help anyone. Who would want to be a fast bowler with the wickets we serve up?

The green-tinged - not really even a proper greentop - against SA at Hobart sure helped us... But I don't think I've seen any really fast pitches in the seven or so years I've been watching the game. Perth a couple of times and maybe Brisbane in '13 had some pace certainly, but not as much as the 70s/80s. It's concerning that Adelaide, the traditional bastion of the boring has been the best the past couple of years with the d/n tests. I'd also love to see us use balls that swing, I hate the 136 km/h line and length merchants.

 

[SeamUp]

Taking home conditions into account and everything else with the individual.

These are the current 40+ test averages. As low as any previous period ? This was always the benchmark.



AUSTRALIA

Warner 48.20
Khawaja 42.00
Smith 61.37
Handscomb 43.63
Paine 40.82

INDIA

Shikhar 42.84
Pujara 49.30
Kohli 54.49
Rahane 41.79

SOUTH AFRICA

Elgar 41.05
Markram 47.27
Amla 47.23
Du Plessis 42.33

NEW ZEALAND

Williamson 50.35
Taylor 47.22

ENGLAND

Cook 45.11
Root 51.27


SRI LANKA

Chandimal 44.96
Mathews 43.35

PAKISTAN

Azhar 44.84

BANGLADESH

Mominul 43.40

 

[Bolo]

As bad as this is on paper it's worse than it looks. Two of the highest averages are banned. Two barely play. Several are over the hill

 

[Starfighter]

And Paine is pretty unlikely to sustain that average I feel.

 

[Daemon]

Lack of Voges and Nair

 

[Migara]

Ultimately, making conditions super bowler friendly does the home team no favours a lot of the time, if you lose the wrong toss you can find yourself batting against a weak attack that is lifted up by a shocking pitch (SL seamers in NZ 2014 for example) and their batsmen are often able to do just enough to pull off a win. Better batting wickets are more likely to expose the touring team if the home side can exploit the subtle demons in the pitch and their batsmen are good enough to negate them.

That iks what SL has been doing throughout Murali's career. We produced pitches that only best of the spinners like Murali, Warne or Saqlain can extract. Heck, even Kumble and Harbhajan got walloped. Few guys like Vettori and Arshan Khan also excelled in SL.

Things have changed since then. Now the pitches are less flat than Murali's days.

 

[Migara]

I've been wanting Aus to go back to really bouncy fast wickets for years for this reason. Greentops won't help us (except maybe against SA), they'll just bring sides with inferior fast bowlers into the game. But the wickets Aus have been churning out over the last 5 or so years have been disgraceful and don't help anyone. Who would want to be a fast bowler with the wickets we serve up?

This was what West Indies found out against SL. They prepared seam bowling paradises and it brought Lankan seamers right in to the game.

 

[Bolo]

The stronger you are at home, the flatter you want your pitches. More life means more lottery.

Lanka have gone about it pretty well. Plenty of pancakes when Murali and that middle order were around. Now more spin friendly. Maybe too much so with guys like Lyon and Maharaj tearing them up, but the right idea.

Works really well for AUS too. More bounce would be a good idea though. This is less of a lottery and more of an advantage, plus it would make for better games. The situation can't go on though

Would like to see more bounce in RSA too. The tennis ball stuff that a couple of the wickets used to produce was a big advantage. Not sure how much control there is over pitch characteristics slowly changing though. Conditions in RSA are too bowling friendly, so it's a bit of a lottery, but more fun and probably kept them more competitive away.

 

[CricAddict]

Taking home conditions into account and everything else with the individual.

These are the current 40+ test averages. As low as any previous period ? This was always the benchmark.



AUSTRALIA

Warner 48.20
Khawaja 42.00
Smith 61.37
Handscomb 43.63
Paine 40.82

INDIA

Shikhar 42.84
Pujara 49.30
Kohli 54.49
Rahane 41.79

SOUTH AFRICA

Elgar 41.05
Markram 47.27
Amla 47.23
Du Plessis 42.33

NEW ZEALAND

Williamson 50.35
Taylor 47.22

ENGLAND

Cook 45.11
Root 51.27


SRI LANKA

Chandimal 44.96
Mathews 43.35

PAKISTAN

Azhar 44.84

BANGLADESH

Mominul 43.40

And the fab 4 still remain distinct from the rest as the only ones having 50+ average. Hats off to Crowe.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Watling is in the 40 club for this decade, but his time as an opener back in 2009 drops him back to 38

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Plus

Ireland

K O'Brien 79

The new fab 1

 

[Slifer]

This was what West Indies found out against SL. They prepared seam bowling paradises and it brought Lankan seamers right in to the game.

Yeah but wi have a pretty crappy lineup either way. Australian players for example, know how to play pace and particularly at home vs any team not named RSA.