Best ever English spinner?

[steds]

The key is in the thread title.

 

[a massive zebra]

I'm going purely on memory here, but I thought there was quite a big difference tbh.

IIRR, Underwood's pre-covered-pitches average was sub-20, whereas Verity was 24, and IIRR Rhodes was 26? Not sure, but if so that isn't, to me, "fairly comparable".

To be fair, Rhodes hardly played any Test cricket in his bowling pomp between 1898 and 1902, during which time he must have been one of the best bowlers ever. Between 1898 and 1903, Rhodes took an incredible 940 county championship wickets at 13.63. He was Yorkshire's leading wicket taker in all of these years and the leading wicket taker in England three times. In the few Test matches he did play over this period, the great man was nothing short of a revelation, taking 66 wickets at 17.65 in his first 13 Tests, including a series winning 31 wickets @ 15 in the 1903/04 Ashes down under. He also played the major hand in bowling Australia out for 36 in 1902.

His overall Test bowling record is misleading because most of his Tests were played in a later period when he was batting up the order and his bowling had lost some of its zip. He also played on to the record breaking age of 52.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Would be an interesting debate now with Swann added and many would go for him as they haven't seen the rest.

 

[andruid]

Laker. Close the thread.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Probably right but dancing queen had success all over the world and got around 250 wickets as well as being a vital part of the side that got to number 1 and won 3 ashes in a row. It will all count for him and lots will go for more recent players over one from the past.

 

[Hicheal Michael]

Call me a cynic, though i just cant see how any spinner can take 4+ WPM at a sub 25 average playing the majority of tests outside of the subcontinent on covered pitches in this day and age.

Modern spinners have no chance in these debates unless there are more specific time parameters.

 

[trundler]

For me, it is between Laker, Blythe and Swann. Little footage exists of the first 2 so it is indeed a very tough comparison.

 

[fredfertang]

Some half decent footage of Laker here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKqcXyh4Vis

 

[Daemon]

Some half decent footage of Laker here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKqcXyh4Vis

I love how old time cricketers didn't celebrate anything. Tahir may just break the speed of sound if he takes 19. .

 

[TheJediBrah]

Reminds me a bit of Paul Wiseman

 

[Starfighter]

I never, ever thought I'd see a Jim Laker - Paul Wiseman comparison, but their bowling actions do certainly have some resemblance.

 

[trundler]

Love how old footage is narrated too.

 

[Starfighter]

Love how old footage is narrated too.

Old footage? Have a gander.

 

[Bolo]

Some half decent footage of Laker here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKqcXyh4Vis

Looks pretty roundarm. Like a really part time medium pacer. I'm not sure if you can get any air that way? He had it easy with pitches, but I assume some didn't grip. Wonder how he was bowling then.

Makes a change to see a straight elbow. Pace or spin, so many questionanle actions after the war until Locke stamped his authority on the issue.

 

[Jack1]

Laker possibly. Bit harsh to not put Swann on the list.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Laker possibly. Bit harsh to not put Swann on the list.

the poll is ten years old, at that point Swann had played a few ODIs and taken 50 county championship wickets in a season once

 

[Starfighter]

Looks pretty roundarm. Like a really part time medium pacer. I'm not sure if you can get any air that way? He had it easy with pitches but I assume some didn't grip. Wonder how he was bowling then.

You can. Having a slightly low arm doesn't prevent you from flighting the ball. He took 15 wickets in three tests in Australia so he could bowl in adverse conditions. Didn't take many in SA but kept it tight and still averaged under 30.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Laker possibly. Bit harsh to not put Swann on the list.

Not so clever are you seeing as the poll was before he played.

Stick to cheerleading Monty Burns.

 

[Starfighter]

I'd be reckoning Laker wins the battle of the bowling actions in this lot too.

 

[Migara]

You can. Having a slightly low arm doesn't prevent you from flighting the ball. He took 15 wickets in three tests in Australia so he could bowl in adverse conditions. Didn't take many in SA but kept it tight and still averaged under 30.

Having a round arm makes it difficult to judge the flight. You can spin the ball bit more and with the angle, arm ball gets much more effective as well. Will create the angle for lefties and will allow wicket to wicket bowling against right handers. It allows elbow to be kept more straight. Many advantages.