Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Fleming is a really.strange one. Owned the greatest bowler of all time in Sri Lanka yet struggled against average bowlers in NZ (and threw away so many beautiful 60s)
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Worst Player to Play 100 Tests?
- Thread starter Pratters
- Start date
morgieb
Request Your Custom Title Now!
He wasn't too bad against us before McGrath came good. Had no clue against him though.
a massive zebra
International Captain
Yeah he couldn't cope with Glenn McGrath. Same against West Indies with Curtley Ambrose.
Burgey
Request Your Custom Title Now!
He never made big runs against Australia. His run out for 99 at lords in 1993 was the cricketing moment of the decade, and summed up his career: almost, but not quite.
Good commentator though.
mr_mister
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He scored plenty of centuries against Ambrose
Always a clique of sorts, and very hard to judge. There's always an agenda of sorts for commenting on it. Most typically getting dropped (a couple of players talked about it being a toxic boys club, but sour grapes are a thing, so who knows), or not getting dropped (there were some questionable selections in favour of people who fitted in better).
Hicheal Michael
U19 Captain
Average vs Australia when McGrath was playing vs when McGrath was not playing
Atherton - (20.51 - 17 Matches) v (39.45 - 16 Matches)
G.Smith - (23.41 - 6 Matches) v (36.80 - 15 Matches)
Dravid - (31.47 - 12 Matches) v (43 - 21 Matches)
Tendulkar - (36.77 - 9 Matches) v (61.83 - 30 Matches)
G.Kirsten - (29.66 - 14 Matches) v (55.50 - 4 Matches)
Ganguly - (26.81 - 9 Matches) v (40.58 - 15 Matches)
Lara - (46.38 - 24 Matches) v (67.91 - 7 Matches)
Kallis - (40.47 - 14 Matches) v (41.85 - 15 Matches)
Atherton - (20.51 - 17 Matches) v (39.45 - 16 Matches)
G.Smith - (23.41 - 6 Matches) v (36.80 - 15 Matches)
Dravid - (31.47 - 12 Matches) v (43 - 21 Matches)
Tendulkar - (36.77 - 9 Matches) v (61.83 - 30 Matches)
G.Kirsten - (29.66 - 14 Matches) v (55.50 - 4 Matches)
Ganguly - (26.81 - 9 Matches) v (40.58 - 15 Matches)
Lara - (46.38 - 24 Matches) v (67.91 - 7 Matches)
Kallis - (40.47 - 14 Matches) v (41.85 - 15 Matches)
Top_Cat
Request Your Custom Title Now!
It’s Hooper.
Atherton, at various stages, was rated amongst the best bats in the world by his opponents. And that partly explains why the best went balls-out to get him as they knew he was always going to be a key wicket. Can’t remember similar sentiments being said about Hooper, most were about his raw talent. That said, he sure had a massive finish to his Test career and one thing he had that Atherton didn’t was, in the right mood, he made the best bowlers look kinda silly. Had that ability to just switch on one day and it didn’t matter who the bowlers were, they were copping a pasting.
MWaugh a solid shout too but just too many influential knocks. Shame he did SFA between them.
Atherton, at various stages, was rated amongst the best bats in the world by his opponents. And that partly explains why the best went balls-out to get him as they knew he was always going to be a key wicket. Can’t remember similar sentiments being said about Hooper, most were about his raw talent. That said, he sure had a massive finish to his Test career and one thing he had that Atherton didn’t was, in the right mood, he made the best bowlers look kinda silly. Had that ability to just switch on one day and it didn’t matter who the bowlers were, they were copping a pasting.
MWaugh a solid shout too but just too many influential knocks. Shame he did SFA between them.
Last edited:
a massive zebra
International Captain
Purely on batting, this is a decent analysis. But you have completely ignored Hooper's skills in other areas. As his economy rate of under 2.5 testifies, Hooper could be relied on to do an excellent job of tying up an end while the fast bowlers rested, a real asset in an attack dominated by pace. Hooper also took over 100 catches and was recognised as one of the leading slip fielders of his generation. As an overall package, these extra skills more than make up for Hooper's marginal batting deficiency vs Atherton, IMO.
Last edited:
Top_Cat
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Personally think Atherton was a solid skipper in the face of the assortment of random bowlers and dickhead batsmen he had to find a way to unite so that needs to be taken into account. Also I don’t think the difference in batting performance was marginal, even with a similar record. Athers with more significant contributions than Hooper, in my view.
Last edited:
Hicheal Michael
U19 Captain
Still not convinced Fleming was better than Atherton, though perhaps i am in the minority?
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Plus Atherton had very few freebie series as captain. Maybe NZ at home in 1994, but that's about it. And I'm not sure that having Illingworth as his line manager was much of a help either.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
I don't know about that. He was definitely one of the most obviously active captains, in that he tried a lot of funky tactics, which leads to his captaincy being talked about a lot more than someone who used more standard tactics (even if they were better). Whether that makes him a great captain I don't know.
I'd say he's probably one of the best though, but I'm not really basing that on much. It's hard to really rate captaincy from the sidelines.