*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[Mr Miyagi]

I think regarding the Dhoni debate as an outsider India would be stronger without him. They have several great options over him.

I’d certainly worry more about India in the next game if they dropped Dhoni. Not just on the like for like change either. I think he reduces the authority of Kohli by changing too much in the field and trying to dominate the teams tactics with the bat too (he scores and starts too slowly we know that. But the field setting thing gets a bit too much too from an opposing point of view). He’s not the captain, Kohli is. The opponent loves it when the opposing captain is getting his authority questioned by one on his own side. Whether it’s agreed or not with Kohli and Dhoni is irrelevant. It makes Kohli’s captaincy look schoolboyish at times when the older past-it keeper is setting the field for him.

I personally and actually think that Dhoni is a very astute leader and supports Kohli, whm I believe likes that support while fielding at long off and long on.

But he's no Buttler with the bat.

 

[YorksLanka]

I think regarding the Dhoni debate as an outsider India would be stronger without him. They have several great options over him.

I’d certainly worry more about India in the next game if they dropped Dhoni. Not just on the like for like change either. I think he reduces the authority of Kohli by changing too much in the field and trying to dominate the teams tactics with the bat too (he scores and starts too slowly we know that. But the field setting thing gets a bit too much too from an opposing point of view). He’s not the captain, Kohli is. The opponent loves it when the opposing captain is getting his authority questioned by one on his own side. Whether it’s agreed or not with Kohli and Dhoni is irrelevant. It makes Kohli’s captaincy look schoolboyish at times when the older past-it keeper is setting the field for him.

tbh mate, that's the Asian way that the elder of the team is respected irrespective of the others position. I know with SL, it was exactly the same when Mathews was captain it was Mahela and Sanga who ran the show. I suppose its a way of the younger captain gaining knowledge and experience from the experienced guys? IMO Dhoni may have had a bad game but he is the go to man on the rare occurrence that India are in trouble. Nothing seems to phase him normally and he times the innings to perfection ( similar to what Bevan used to do for the Aussies)

 

[Mr Miyagi]

tbh mate, that's the Asian way that the elder of the team is respected irrespective of the others position. I know with SL, it was exactly the same when Mathews was captain it was Mahela and Sanga who ran the show. I suppose its a way of the younger captain gaining knowledge and experience from the experienced guys? IMO Dhoni may have had a bad game but he is the go to man on the rare occurrence that India are in trouble. Nothing seems to phase him normally and he times the innings to perfection ( similar to what Bevan used to do for the Aussies)

I don't think it's an Asian way necessarily. I think this is cross cultural and race and ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

Martin Crowe couldn't care less what John Wright thought about anything, but I am sure Steve Smith listened to Brad Haddin.

It depends on the personalities, their position and their relative experience, Not culture.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I don't think Kohli's attitude is very "Asian" as far as cricket teams go. Agree completely with the assessment on Dhoni. Reminds me of that Star Trek episode Unto The Breach...guy is still living in the past, thinking he can take games ridiculously deep and come out trumps. Not happening now, so why not bat like everyone else does?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I don't think Kohli's attitude is very "Asian" as far as cricket teams go. Agree completely with the assessment on Dhoni. Reminds me of that Star Trek episode Unto The Breach...guy is still living in the past, thinking he can take games ridiculously deep and come out trumps. Not happening now, so why not bat like everyone else does?

"It's life Jim but not as we know it,
It's worst than that, he's dead Jim
We come in peace, shoot to kill
You canny change the laws of physics"

 

[OverratedSanity]

"It's life Jim but not as we know it,
It's worst than that, he's dead Jim
We come in peace, shoot to kill
You canny change the laws of physics"

I have some unsolicited advice for you. Its "worse", not "worst".

 

[cnerd123]

tbh mate, that's the Asian way that the elder of the team is respected irrespective of the others position. I know with SL, it was exactly the same when Mathews was captain it was Mahela and Sanga who ran the show. I suppose its a way of the younger captain gaining knowledge and experience from the experienced guys? IMO Dhoni may have had a bad game but he is the go to man on the rare occurrence that India are in trouble. Nothing seems to phase him normally and he times the innings to perfection ( similar to what Bevan used to do for the Aussies)

No but you don't understand YorksLanka, his career Strike Rate is just 88. That's ****. He was a **** player

You don't judge whether a player was good or not by evaluating their performances with context. That's just dumb. Career stats are where it's at.

 

[YorksLanka]

No but you don't understand YorksLanka, his career Strike Rate is just 88. That's ****. He was a **** player

You don't judge whether a player was good or not by evaluating their performances with context. That's just dumb. Career stats are where it's at.

I hope you're taking the mick with that comment *****..cricket isn't played on a spreadsheet as I am sure you well know..

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I have some unsolicited advice for you. Its "worse", not "worst".

I agree. Typographical errors happen.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

No but you don't understand YorksLanka, his career Strike Rate is just 88. That's ****. He was a **** player

You don't judge whether a player was good or not by evaluating their performances with context. That's just dumb. Career stats are where it's at.

Well tbf his SR is less than Gilchrist who was a player of the 90's, just saying

Or Viv Richards who was a player of the 1970's and 80's.

But do tell us more

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Look - I get Dhoni fans rallying around Dhoni, and fair enough, he was a good player, but don't tell everyone he's a walk in starter to ATG status ahead of Gilly or even Buttler, because for many of us, he just isn't.

Where you put the 2006 and 2007 Dhoni weight vs Buttler 2013 onwards weight is upto the individual.

***** tells me to adjust for eras, is he going to tell me the appropriate weighting too?

His SR is an issue, no matter how you sell it with his average.

Dhoni is a great player, I prefer Buttler. I'm not going to apologise for this.

 

[Daemon]

Look - I get Dhoni fans rallying around Dhoni, and fair enough, he was a good player, but don't tell everyone he's a walk in starter to ATG status ahead of Gilly or even Buttler, because for many of us, he just isn't.

Where you put the 2006 and 2007 Dhoni weight vs Buttler 2013 onwards weight is upto the individual.

***** tells me to adjust for eras, is he going to tell me the appropriate weighting too?

I think people are just taking issue with John saying he wasn't a good player between 2005-2013 or so. We're not even debating whether he was an ATG or not, just that he was merely good.

He keeps bringing up his current record as well which no one is arguing against. Dhoni has been **** for years now.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I think people are just taking issue with John saying he wasn't a good player between 2005-2013 or so. We're not even debating whether he was an ATG or not, just that he was merely good.

He keeps bringing up his current record as well which no one is arguing against. Dhoni has been **** for years now.

People seem to think that long haired, female body-guarded and motorbike riding Dhoni wasn't a fan favourite outside of Asia that people were rooting for - we'd all had enough (outside of) Australia winning nearly everything bar the 2005 Ashes since the 1990's (this includes the 2009 Champs trophy when Watson made Sobers look amateur).

But a little perspective please.

 

[TheJediBrah]

88 I expect of an anchor man, even then it’s not ideal. From a hitter/finisher 100 minimum is expected from Dhoni over that career in the roles he’s played. Someone as hyped as Dhoni over the years you’d think his career SR was 120 minimum.

Anyway, I won’t be replying to you again (or reading another post from you ever again) as you are now blocked. Everything you say is inflammatory. India have an anchor in Kohli striking faster than their finisher/hitter. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out Dhoni isn’t good enough and hasn’t been for a decade statistically. His t20 SR is miserly too, showing his struggles as a hitter once more. Goodbye angry Marc.

tbh Marc is spot on here, even if he was perhaps a bit forceful in his wording. An 88 strike rate over a career is fine. You're still living in your imaginary world where ODI scores of 350 are normal. That hasn't been the case, like, ever. Only very recently have they been any more than 1 in 20 occurrences.

It certainly doesn't reflect most of Dhoni's career.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

tbh Marc is spot on here, even if he was perhaps a bit forceful in his wording. An 88 strike rate over a career is fine. You're still living in your imaginary world where ODI scores of 350 are normal. That hasn't been the case, like, ever. Only very recently have they been any more than 1 in 20 occurrences.

It certainly doesn't reflect most of Dhoni's career.

Well probably this explains why Aus is 6th in ODI, tbf. Scores over 300 are very normal for the top teams these days. Maybe not 350, but certainly 300+

There's no surprise when someone scores 320 or even 350 these days batting first. And none really when it is chased down. If someone chases down 400, that's still headlines. But it isn't like it hasn't happened already.

 

[Shri]

Look - I get Dhoni fans rallying around Dhoni, and fair enough, he was a good player, but don't tell everyone he's a walk in starter to ATG status ahead of Gilly or even Buttler, because for many of us, he just isn't.

Where you put the 2006 and 2007 Dhoni weight vs Buttler 2013 onwards weight is upto the individual.

***** tells me to adjust for eras, is he going to tell me the appropriate weighting too?

His SR is an issue, no matter how you sell it with his average.

Dhoni is a great player, I prefer Buttler. I'm not going to apologise for this.

Lmao, Buttler vs Dhoni. Go home kid, you are drunk.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Well probably this explains why Aus is 6th in ODI, tbf.

During Dhoni's ODI career, 2.5% of team totals have been 350 or more. This isn't debatable.

And stop trying to bring your nationalistic bull**** into everything pls

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Lmao, Buttler vs Dhoni. Go home kid, you are drunk.

MS Dhoni since 1 Jan 2013

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Ave 49 at SR 87.8

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Jos Buttler 41 at 117.20

But hey - 8 runs in 5 overs seems legit at Dhoni's pace today

Shri - this is like mythbusters. Go change the tyre on your scooter kid. It is flat. Like your argument.

I'm not drunk to think this. I'm not a kid to think this. Many of us do. We're not all kids. We're not all drunks. We have our opinions, and they differ to yours.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

During Dhoni's ODI career, 2.5% of team totals have been 350 or more. This isn't debatable.

And stop trying to bring your nationalistic bull**** into everything pls

Please don't swear at me. The star censor reminds me what happens when I google "TheJediBrah". It is disconcerting for me.

 

[cnerd123]

My post was very clearly referring to what John said, I don't understand why Miyagi has to keep bringing Butler up.